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Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

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Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#51

Post by AlexB138 »

RangerScience wrote: post #33
kryogen1c wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more, lost interest here: >Psychologist Abraham Maslow believed that safety ranked second only to food and shelter as a basic human need. Someone who has food and a roof over their head today, but doesn’t know whether they will tomorrow, should be considered poor. I find this premise extremely unsatisfying and non-obvious to say the least. Life is dangerous. There's no such thing as safety. Everyone's…

> I am in no way poor, but if I lost my job and couldn't pay my bills, I'd be in trouble very quickly Sounds like if you lost your job you could pay the bills. You're running into the difference between what is - for you - a hypothetical and what is for others a reality. > That's no one's fault but my own Bu-bu-bu-bullshit! This is completely discounting the role the entire rest of civilization has in producing the c…

> "Bu-bu-bu-bullshit! "

Is this really necessary, or the best way to make your point? It really takes away from an otherwise decent post.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#52

Post by pm90 »

kartan wrote: post #6

> Luckily, there is just such a concept: It’s called material security. This is really important. There are people that are one paycheck away from not being able to afford rent and basic necessities. I have lost my job in the past. I was calm and just enjoyed the time while I was looking for a new job. I have money saved. For a lot of people that will have been an extremely stressful situation. That kind of stress is…

> I have lost my job in the past. I was calm and just enjoyed the time while I was looking for a new job. I have money saved. For a lot of people that will have been an extremely stressful situation. That kind of stress is related to bad-decision taking and reduced life expectancy.

Same experience. I was laid off my first job out of college; but I had enough money saved that I basically calmly job searched. Even that was stressful: not having an income is really really bad, couldn't sleep well etc. But if I had to worry about finances too... man, that would suck so bad.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#53

Post by jhayward »

User23 wrote: post #32

Poverty is not a disease. It's not a malady that can be treated or cured. It is a consequence of many factors, but above all it is primarily a consequence, not a cause. What causes poverty? Well like any other widespread social phenomenon, the causes are varied. Crime is an obvious one. Poor decision making is another. For example, a seemingly absurd 70% of windfall recipients go broke[1]. It's evident that the major…

> above all it is primarily a consequence, not a cause

It absolutely is a cause, of many things, including more poverty. In the US, the largest determiner of a child's future socioeconomic status is her parent's wealth.

Whether a disease model is the best one to use is arguable, but blanket denial that poverty is a primary cause of much social disruption, dysfunction, and lack of economic achievement is just nonsense.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#54

Post by lotsofpulp »

ip26 wrote: post #42
lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard anyone refer to 20%+ interest as cheap credit until now.

Your parent is probably thinking about leveraging the grace period. It's a useful strategy that lets you pay for an unexpected expense & liquidate assets at your leisure, instead of needing to sit on large quantities of low-return liquid assets. This strategy does require strong discipline, but I agree with your parent, I find it is a very useful tool.

Yes, that makes more sense, I probably assumed incorrectly.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#55

Post by njarboe »

xadhominemx wrote: post #29
chrisco255 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from a very conservative family. Nobody's insecure about non-whites having the ability to vote. They might be worried about the fact that some demographics vote like 95% Democrat, but that's just a concern about blind loyalty to party and identity politics. But agree with your sentiment. Insecurity in general is a very loose term. Some people are prone to believe the sky is falling and there's little that gove…

> Nobody's insecure about non-whites having the ability to vote Actually they are, and go so far as to pass laws specifically to suppress non-white votes https://twitter.com/haroldpollack/status/1051657219899617280

I imagine chrisco255 means nobody in his family.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#56

Post by jhayward »

FakeComments wrote: post #11
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #3

This comment post is going to be pure speculation. I think the numbers in this article are right. Over the past 75 years, relative poverty has grown at a dramatic pace. Sure, everyone's quality of life has improved across the board but relative poverty is the important metric. In the past 15 years more and more of a household income is tied up in basic needs; bills and rent/mortgages are consuming higher percentages…

> Sure, everyone's quality of life has improved across the board but relative poverty is the important metric. I completely disagree — the total standard of living is the only one that matters. If you’re better off than you used to be, you’ll keep buying into society and things will keep getting better. I think there’s four factors: 1. It’s hard to view your status in absolute instead of relative terms, because it re…

> extort wealth until they’re forced back into absolute poverty — which there are signs of happening.

~~It is hardly sufficient to simply say that this outrageous claim requires enormous proof. Please, show me the billionaires who have been forced in to poverty by social program. Please.~~

Edit: I was misreading the above in exactly the wrong direction, wealth-wise.

There is indeed quite a bit of evidence that the economic system, as a whole, is evolving to extract every single dollar of wealth from the lower classes, primarily transferring it to the top class. Health care (especially end-of-life), education, and wage stagnation vs productivity gains are the prime examples.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#57

Post by grecy »

isoskeles wrote: post #5
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #3

This comment post is going to be pure speculation. I think the numbers in this article are right. Over the past 75 years, relative poverty has grown at a dramatic pace. Sure, everyone's quality of life has improved across the board but relative poverty is the important metric. In the past 15 years more and more of a household income is tied up in basic needs; bills and rent/mortgages are consuming higher percentages…

Are student loans a basic need?

Many countries certainly consider higher education a basic right.... of course those countries don't have loans for education.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#58

Post by jhayward »

isoskeles wrote: post #5
sovietmudkipz wrote: post #3

This comment post is going to be pure speculation. I think the numbers in this article are right. Over the past 75 years, relative poverty has grown at a dramatic pace. Sure, everyone's quality of life has improved across the board but relative poverty is the important metric. In the past 15 years more and more of a household income is tied up in basic needs; bills and rent/mortgages are consuming higher percentages…

Are student loans a basic need?

Education is a basic need. Inequality in access to education is an accelerator and maintainer of inequality.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#59

Post by pm90 »

kibwen wrote: post #46
esotericn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was calm and just enjoyed the time while I was looking for a new job. I have money saved. For a lot of people that will have been an extremely stressful situation. That kind of stress is related to bad-decision taking Without that phenomenon (the "must get a job very soon / now" mindset), loads of low paid / unskilled positions would just never be filled. No-one would work crap jobs. It feels to me like the econo…

This attitude seems alien to me. If there's a job that nobody wants to do, the employer should offer more compensation. If that raises the price of the service such that the venture is no longer profitable, then that indicates a fundamental lack of demand for that service relative to its cost. No poor person should be expected to subsidize the comfort of the higher classes via their desperation.

> No poor person should be expected to subsidize the comfort of the higher classes via their desperation.

Why do you think sweatshops exist?

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#60

Post by ip26 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #54
ip26 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent is probably thinking about leveraging the grace period. It's a useful strategy that lets you pay for an unexpected expense & liquidate assets at your leisure, instead of needing to sit on large quantities of low-return liquid assets. This strategy does require strong discipline, but I agree with your parent, I find it is a very useful tool.

Yes, that makes more sense, I probably assumed incorrectly.

It also depends on the context of where you live, I do believe in some countries there is no grace period, in which case this doesn't really work as well and you would be right to say it's not cheap at all!
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