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Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

bbc.com

151–160 of 208 posts

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dont get keto acidosis by eating low carb, that is misinformation.

I made it very clear that it’s high ketones while diabetic that causes it. If you’d like to correct that in a more constructive way, that would be helpful.

Type 1, maybe. Type 2, not at all. In fact, a ketogenic diet will reduce or eliminate the symptoms of T2.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#152
post #53
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why there needs to be some visible and lasting penalties...as in if you have a disease like diabetes that you can prevent or fix by simply eating better and not eating so much - then you are responsible for any and all medical costs associated with it. We don't allow insurance claims if you purposefully wreck your car or burn your house down; why do we allow this when it comes to your health?

If you think "simply eating better and not eating so much" is "simple", you don't understand people. All our evidence is that it is by no means simple for most people. It's a problem that's about as hard to deal with as drug addiction. Furthermore, it is a social problem, in that we as a society allow businesses to exploit peoples weaknesses without covering the social costs of the problems they are causing, and give…

Well I "simply" don't eat the stuff or over eat. O.k so maybe I am some anomaly but I don't think so. Sure some people take a little more incentive and that is why I propose to provide them with some incentive - which would be that if they knew, or saw, that their health care costs are no longer covered if they cause their health issues then a large amount of people would start changing their ways. People need to be made responsible for their decisions; this means they must pay for their actions - if they are not held accountable then they, in general, will not act in a responsible way. Making people responsible will turn the social tide.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#153
post #3

Losing a lot of weight with very low calorie diets is hard, but not regaining it over the next couple of years is next to impossible. Your body will try all the tricks in the book, it will reduce your metabolism to way below that of the person of the same weight, it will amp up your hunger hormones so much that you will think and dream about food 24/7. Only 5 to 7% of people that lose a large amount weight are able t…

> Only 5 to 7% of people that lose a large amount weight are able to keep it off successfully in the medium and long term. Hope there is more research into this mechanism.

The mechanism = not staying on your "diet" permanently.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem afflicting us now is that people eat too much, consequently weigh too much, damage their health, and balloon healthcare expenses society-wide. If a pill can make people eat less, why reject it? If a medication solves a problem, it solves a problem. You can't say "X doesn't work" when X does, in fact, work, and then expect people to take you seriously. You're adopting a moralizing stance here, one that say…

> You can't say "X doesn't work" when X does, in fact, work, and then expect people to take you seriously. > You're adopting a moralizing stance here, one that says that gain without pain is illegitimate. No, I'm saying that a pill won't solve the root problem. You make people skinny with a pill, you just end up with unhealthy, malnourished skinny people who insulin is all out of wack and who will still get heart att…

Nevertheless, telling people they should eat better and exercise more does not convince them to do these things. The approach you're advocating does not work. What is your alternative? More of the same?

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#155
post #122

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

A lot of people here are suggesting, like you, that a low-carbs diet or ketos can help your body "heal" from T2D. I just don't see why starving yourself from carbs, which is like the basis of life for your cells, is going to help. From what I gleaned here and there, T2D is more linked to fat-heavy diet, which clutters blood vessels and keeps yours cells from absorbing the insulin your body produces, thus preventing t…

T2 is related to glucose ingestion(sugar, carbs) NOT fat. Glucose spikes your insulin, and the continued, extreme spiking of insulin is what causes T2.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#156
post #62
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citations for the 5 to 7% would be nice. Here's a meta analysis that states otherwise. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/74/5/579/4737391

Per that study, "This analysis of 5-y weight-loss maintenance indicates, on average, that obese individuals maintained weight losses of 3.0 kg, representing a reduced weight of 3.2% below initial body weight. These individuals were successfully maintaining a weightloss averaging 23.4% of their initial weight loss at 5y" Put another way, after 5 years, the average weight loss was ~3kg, with an average weight gain of 7…

One consideration is that obesity has a snowball effect. I think I remember reading once that the average annual weight gain at midlife is 3 pounds. So over a 5-year period, those who made the attempt may have actually been down 15 pounds, plus the 3kg, from where they might have been if they'd continued on their trajectory.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#157
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodybuilders eat plenty of carbs.

No they don't. A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein, then certain fats, then starchy carbs at the right time (breakfast and post-workout).

https://renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing

Just about every bodybuilder slams carbs, all day long.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#158
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to be extremely difficult to confirm to 800 calories consisting almost entirely of carbs - very few people are going to succeed with this.

Neither of those consist almost entirely of carbs.

That is a ton of carbs and moderate protein. I'd expect to see <80g of carbs and more focus on lean meats and veggies.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#159
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodybuilders eat plenty of carbs.

Not sure why this is being downvoted, bodybuilders do eat carbs - they just time them appropriately. If you're about to work out, carbohydrates will help you get through it. On the other hand, if you're going to be sedentary for a while, or you're really trying to prioritize fat loss, you probably wouldn't eat as many carbs. Of course, Keto is a thing, but I haven't heard many stories of bodybuilders that actually ta…

If by "time them appropriately" you mean "constantly all day long", then yeah.

Unless they're prepping for a contest, which is not what they spend the majority of their time doing.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#160

You absolutely don’t need such caloric restriction to revert diabetes. All it takes is a very low carb or keto diet. Even without exercise.

Problem is keeping it, as almost everyone can keep the diet for a few months. We all know what we should do but don't, sometimes until is too late. The person that invents a pill to trick our genes not to seek what was once rare (fat, sweets, carbs etc) will be a trillionaire. When our current genes were stamped "we" maybe had to hunt for days to eat once. Now we drive to McDonalds, order our or open the fridge door.…

Right, but still significantly easier than staying on an 800 calorie diet.
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