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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#881

Post by bduerst »

ardy42 wrote: post #872
bduerst wrote: post #855

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is, but when considering substitute employers, in the economic sense, working in a small-town software shop isn't quite the same as working at a multinational tech company. If we're looking at it in that lens, then GP's problem isn't with Google, but with large tech companies in general because that's the industry standard.

> Of course there is, but when considering substitute employers, in the economic sense, working in a small-town software shop isn't quite the same as working at a multinational tech company. The life outside of the FAANG/GAFAM bubble isn't just "small-town software shop[s]." There's a lot more diversity than that, and to conceive of the industry in that way is too parochial.

How many of those companies can be considered substitute employers to Google? That offer the same level of compensation?

That is what an economic substitute is. SMB tech companies typically don't compare.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#882

Post by YetAnotherNick »

ionised wrote: post #877
partiallypro wrote: post #868

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US went in because it facilitated terrorism and led to the direct death of 3000 Americans. The rise of religious extremism was well before the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan. Am I for US intervention as "world police," absolutely not. I don't agree with our presence in Iraq, but there is certainly a point where US presence is warranted and needed. Anything else is just a naive world view. I was like that when I was…

None of this address the original point I was making, in that US wars in the last few decades have not made Americans safer. Or anyone else for that matter. The fact that people might now be clamouring to have them back after they left a power vaccuum to act as blocker on warlords and religious zealots fighting for control doesn't change that fact. > nything else is just a naive world view. I was like that when I was…

> None of this address the original point I was making, in that US wars in the last few decades have not made Americans safer. Or anyone else for that matter.

Can you just recite the number of American civilians killed due to terrorist attacks after 9/11 and compare it with how many terrorists have seriously threatened and even died to kill Americans. If someone is ready to die to kill less than one person on average, it needs to be taken seriously.

While, yes there are things which every military mishandles from time to time, certainly US, you are calling out all activities, for which I hate to say it but you are too naive.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#883

Post by _Tev »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #878
_Tev wrote: post #858

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social liberalism California edition is quite extreme even for (Western) Europe.

As a Western European, it really isn't.

So how did the Brexit happen? Le Pen?

There is clear shift away from extreme social liberalism, and denying that just convinces people that shift is necessary. Even when it might have disastrous consequences for the economy ...

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#884

Post by rmc »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #747
rmc wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take to get a sysadmin up to speed? And how much money do they lose while their websites are unavailable? What happens if YouTube.com doesn't work for a week while they get up to speed?

TIL keeping google running is a matter of two-a-penny UNIX sysadmin skills. The SRE book was a fraud!

I never said it was easy to keep Google running. The complete opposite instead.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#885

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tomlock wrote: post #880
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why there are laws against that, which are actively being enforced against them.

So you both think people are being paid reasonably and that Google and Apple are colluding with one another.

1) The collusion has presumably stopped now that they're caught.

2) It is possible for both to be true at the same time, because the industry is much larger than Apple, Google, Intel and Adobe. Even if they didn't compete with each other, they still have to outbid Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. -- and pay enough to prevent the workers leaving to found their own companies. It's not unreasonable to expect that the effect on wages was marginal even when it was occurring.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#886

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

_Tev wrote: post #883
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Western European, it really isn't.

So how did the Brexit happen? Le Pen? There is clear shift away from extreme social liberalism, and denying that just convinces people that shift is necessary. Even when it might have disastrous consequences for the economy ...

If you're defining extreme by the shifting Overton window of European politics then suddenly fascism is not going to be extreme and mild post-war social democracy looks like Stalinist communism.

California isn't that progressive.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#887

Post by tomlock »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #885
tomlock wrote: post #880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you both think people are being paid reasonably and that Google and Apple are colluding with one another.

1) The collusion has presumably stopped now that they're caught. 2) It is possible for both to be true at the same time, because the industry is much larger than Apple, Google, Intel and Adobe. Even if they didn't compete with each other, they still have to outbid Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. -- and pay enough to prevent the workers leaving to found their own companies. It's not unreasonable to expect that the e…

You're having to make a lot of presumptions to have to believe these employees are being paid fairly.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#888

Post by apostacy »

BurningFrog wrote: post #710
apostacy wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is well aware of the spyware that the Chinese govt is using to oppress it's ethnic minorities, but they don't lift a finger to thwart it. They don't blacklist the app that the government requires Muslims in Xinjiang to have on their phones at all time[1]. They could easily blacklist it. How far is Google willing to go to be friends with China? Mass detainment and ethnic cleansing are well within the realm of p…

Here is a thought for you: If Google actually were to do anything to help they Anne Franks of China, do you think they would announce it to the world to debate on HN, or do you think they would do it in secret?

Perhaps. But "Maybe Google is just pretending to be evil" does not give me much comfort. Especially as I have friends who are ethnic minorities in SE Asia.
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