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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#231

Post by nonbel »

soundwave106 wrote: post #225
nonbel wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"In the very near future when climate change has destroyed out planet" Maybe people are killing themselves because they are addicted to the fear porn spread by mainstream/social media regarding "climate change". I don't mean this as a joke, I was addicted to financial/economic fear porn for a bit and it did have a negative effect on my outlook.

The main "fear porn" here that I think relates, and it's more of a tangent than any direct connection, is the propaganda associated with the War On Drugs, just as a comparison to the realities of the opioid epidemic. Some of the issues that were associated with various illegal drug epidemics were legitimate (particularly addictive substances that had the potential to destroy your health like heroin and cocaine), but…

Not that I consider the "war on drugs" to be valid in any way, but I haven't seen anything involved with it that is in the same category as the genre of "news" I am talking about:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fear%20Porn

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doom+porn

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#232

Post by tvjunky »

dragonwriter wrote: post #223
coding123 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's what he's saying - they go to the ER.

Yesh, but ERs are limited in services provided. The mandate they face with regard to service independent of payment is stabilization, not full-scope general medical service.

Going to the ER is a very common thing for many people. Even for cold and flu. So yes, they aren't getting general exams or long term care. They are getting immediate symptom based care in the most expensive way possible. This goes back to the issue mentioned above. People wait too long, go to the ER when it hurts but, it's too late.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#233

Post by ACow_Adonis »

jogjayr wrote: post #172
rsync wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods ..." This is true. It is truly insane that public food benefits can be used to buy soft drinks, sugar cereals and candy: "Soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, and ice cream are food items and are therefore eligible items"[1] [1] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

It doesn't seem insane to me, just a reflection of the reality that people sometimes buy unhealthy foods - for both legit and frivolous reasons. Sometimes your kid will only eat sugary cereals for breakfast, because children can be fussy eaters. Or maybe you want to kick back with a can of Coke after a hard day at work (or need the caffeine to wake up for work in the morning, and coffee is too expensive). Or you want…

Let me guess...American? Because coming from outside, the way you pile sugar into everything (including breakfast) is just insane and aa little stomach churning.

Obviously it's a bit nurture on both our parts, but sugar for breakfast is crazy, as is being taught that things like soda or snickers should ever be eaten except for in exceptional/celebratory circumstances.

One needs to be taught that those food stuffs are acceptable and gain a palette for them, because foreigners find your food sickly sweet. Clearly this is a policy/cultural thing...

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#234

Post by pkaye »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

I thought preexisting conditions was eliminated by the ACA? Also corn syrup is not the real culprit. It is just overeating in general. Portion sizes are huge in the US compared to the EU.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#235

Post by Jach »

gizmo385 wrote: post #192
ams6110 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another group of people like me. I have a good job, with good health benefits. I haven't been to the doctor for myself in probably a decade. I just don't like doctors.

> I just don't like doctors. Why? They're there to keep you healthy. Yeah, sure it can be uncomfortable talking to a doctor about personal health issues, but it's better than waiting until it's too late and finding out that "if only you'd come sooner, we could have helped".

> They're there to keep you healthy.

This is probably the issue under contention. I don't like doctors either (or really the entire medical establishment). Some part of that is a belief that they aren't in fact there to keep you healthy. No I'm not trying to argue something like profit motives or whatever driving an unethical effort to make you dependent instead of healthy, or say doctors shouldn't exist, or that I wouldn't go to one if I thought I needed medical care, just that I don't like doctors or the systems and methods they operate under (some by force). nonbel unpacks one aspect of the dislike, The Elephant in the Brain unpacks another aspect (e.g. by the finding that people who receive free healthcare consume a lot more medicine but aren't any healthier, which wasn't actually surprising for me to hear!), and there are other aspects for my dislike too.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#236

Post by auiya »

peteradio wrote: post #48

Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. I can't help but feel like there is a sense of uselessness felt by and toward a large population in the US and rather than lift them up we are letting them be snuffed out.

I think you're reading too much into the epidemic. Availability and over-prescription is the primary cause. People aren't prescribed opiates for depression for instance, but the over-accessibility to opiates allows for illegal use to take place more easily.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#237

Post by ams6110 »

Jach wrote: post #235
gizmo385 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't like doctors. Why? They're there to keep you healthy. Yeah, sure it can be uncomfortable talking to a doctor about personal health issues, but it's better than waiting until it's too late and finding out that "if only you'd come sooner, we could have helped".

> They're there to keep you healthy. This is probably the issue under contention. I don't like doctors either (or really the entire medical establishment). Some part of that is a belief that they aren't in fact there to keep you healthy. No I'm not trying to argue something like profit motives or whatever driving an unethical effort to make you dependent instead of healthy, or say doctors shouldn't exist, or that I w…

Mostly this. I think most doctors mean well but but when you go looking for problems that you are trained to find you usually find something, and medicine is so defensive these days due to malpractice litigation that nothing even slightly anomalous is ever ignored.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#238

Post by ams6110 »

sokoloff wrote: post #183
abootstrapper wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So part of your solution to healthcare is poor people not having kids? How do intend we accomplish that?

Not GP, but I read that more as "if you can't afford something, don't do that thing" coupled with "kids are not an exception to the previous recommendation". It's not a matter of forcing that decision on people, but rather having the same expectation of personal choice and responsibility for that choice that we have for other health matters (exercise, diet, smoking, alcohol use).

Yes, well stated.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#239

Post by ams6110 »

abootstrapper wrote: post #173
ams6110 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, if you're making miniumum wage, don't have kids. If you do, you (or at least your kids) likely qualify for Medicaid, so you do get treatment. Often preferentially. I have been to providers who have a 6-8 week lead time on appointments for new private insurance patients, but Medicaid patients get in almost immediately.

So part of your solution to healthcare is poor people not having kids? How do intend we accomplish that?

Yes. I think we need stronger education in middle school and high school as to what kids cost, and what they deserve in terms of a stable home and parenting, education, etc. And to not have kids until you are in a position to provide those things.

It's a biological drive so it's tough. But I think we could do better. We're too sensitve that we might be "poor shaming" or such nonsense to even discuss it these days.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#240

Post by ams6110 »

pkaye wrote: post #234
jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

I thought preexisting conditions was eliminated by the ACA? Also corn syrup is not the real culprit. It is just overeating in general. Portion sizes are huge in the US compared to the EU.

The issue with corn syrup is mostly that it made it cheap for producers to load up their food with it. And most people like sweet food, so they eat more and buy more.

Corn syrup isn't really any better or worse for you than cane sugar, it's just a lot cheaper.

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