Google has been the equivalent of an IT Gulag for a long time. I always pitied the poor souls working there thinking they've racked up some sort of prestige. Not worth the 7000 days in Siberia.
We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
411–420 of 888 posts
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#412I know it at least since the 2008 crisis. Google made a choice, manipulate search results /display on page to stop sending as less visitors as possible to non-Google sites.
I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to, but as someone who's used Google since back when it had a bunch of serious competitors, I'd also pick 2008-2010 as about the time they stopped even appearing to match words with actions and became just another company, from an outside perspective, at least. It surprises me that people are just now forming this opinion about them.
Perhaps not coincidentally that's about when the fundamentally-a-bad-idea service of Facebook started to get huge as it grew past college campuses, and showed it was really easy—like, incredibly easy—to convince all these new Internet users to give strangers tons of information about themselves, in gross violation of previous Internet norms of avoiding posting personal info anywhere, and that one could make stupid amounts of money by facilitating these poor choices.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
You deserve massive credit for striking a blow against this madness. A great example of how working people have more power than they think if they're willing to risk dollars and cents for matters of right and wrong. I say that fully realizing that not everyone is in the financial position where they can risk a fight with their employer. You can't expect everyone to be Ghandi.
- if they're willing + if they're willing and able FTFY
I think I covered ableness in the second paragraph. For a large and growing number of people in the US, taking on that fight could easily mean homelessness. I don't hardly consider them able on grounds of self preservation.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#414And if the employees placed thier values over profits, why are they still there? I wonder if they are going to refuse their stock based compensation?
"I don't want to do evil things for any amount of money" is clearly not the same thing as "I don't care about money at all."
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#415"Many of us accepted employment at Google with the company’s values in mind, including its previous position on Chinese censorship and surveillance, and an understanding that Google was a company willing to place its values above its profits." When has it ever put values above profits? Google is selling our data to everyone. What values?
Just like Facebook, Google is NOT selling anyone’s data!
What they are selling is the ability to run targeted ads based on that data. But the data never leaves Google!
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#416"Many of us accepted employment at Google with the company’s values in mind, including its previous position on Chinese censorship and surveillance, and an understanding that Google was a company willing to place its values above its profits." When has it ever put values above profits? Google is selling our data to everyone. What values?
Google's motto used to be "Don't be evil", until Oct 2015. They were generally doing the good things. I'm not sure Google has any values right now, unless somebody corrects me.
To quote Google's code of conduct as it exists today:
> And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!
https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/
Media headlines from the time gave the impression that it was removed, which was absolutely false.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#417One thing I've wondered about "don't be evil" is: what stories does the company tell itself about how that value gets put into practice?
Any value which actually drives organizational behavior in the real world is going to be complex -- complex enough that it cannot be fully conveyed in a 3-word-phrase. This is especially true when the phrase includes such a not-agreed-upon word as "evil". So the ways that the organization expects individuals to apply the phrase need to be explained. From to Lexington the data structure that humans have historically used to store those explanations-of-values is the story. So what stories did Google employees used to tell each other about "don't be evil" and what stories do they tell each other now?
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#418Values are not about profits. They are about Innovation. Which fuels market share and has the intended result of increased profits. The assumption that profits rule the world is a projection. Imo, Innovation rules the world.
I feel like you just contradicted yourself. If a company didn't think innovation lead to more profits, then they wouldn't try to.
Profits allow for survival in the immediate. Innovation allows for survival in the future
EDIT: The phrase "Innovate or die" is popularized for the concept of profits or innovation.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#419I think, what these employees don't realize is: Even when a company places values over profits, it is still in an attempt to maximize profits over the long term. By placing values above profits, it increases it's goodwill with customers thus increasing it's moat and it's retention, as well as it's employee retention. This strategy made sense in the early days. Not anymore. As Google's position becomes increasingly st…
Huh, that's an excellent point. When a company is so big and entrenched it doesn't need to seem like the nice guy anymore. Perhaps similarly to anti-monopoly laws we should also have size caps on companies.
> we should also have size caps on companies
As a thought experiment, I've often wondered the best way to maintain the positive corporate culture that small companies tend to lose as they grow.
It's not clear it's simply growth, or whether it's profits. I wonder if a non-charity oriented non-profit would maintain a better corporate culture.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#420Values are not about profits. They are about Innovation. Which fuels market share and has the intended result of increased profits. The assumption that profits rule the world is a projection. Imo, Innovation rules the world.
Was this always the case, or is this the face of 21st century? I used to see so many Mom-And-Pop shops that are now being replaced by the bigger power seeking companies. If this is the way we are heading, then I am kinda scared and feel like the only way for me to not be in the chopping block is to join them.
21st century. I highly recommend the book "The Psychology of Innovation in Organizations"
I help a lot of mom'n'pop type shops introduce innovations into their operations. Most places just need a solid online presence with a proper SEO strategy. Others need unique solutions that are foreign to their industries.