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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#171

Post by virmundi »

schalab wrote: post #91
hnphillipj wrote: post #47

Given how trash of a search engine Baidu is, Google would likely achieve market share dominance in China within a couple years - should they move forward with Dragonfly. Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market. Search engine advertising constitutes close to 85% of Google's revenue. And unlike Project Maven, which was ended due to internal resistance from emplo…

Why dont western companies band together and threaten a boycott until some kind of IP laws are enforced? They just keep getting picked off one by one.

Prisoner's dilemma. If one of those companies jumps ship, it will make more money than the others.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#173

Post by TheForumTroll »

dandare wrote: post #22

What am I missing? The cost of switching to an alternative search engine like Bing or Duck is next to zero. (Actually, I dropped Google for Duck just 2 months ago.) Brand is the most valuable asset Google has. Is the Chinese search market - and other evil projects - really worth the damage to Google's public image?

>other evil projects

Like a search-engine in NSAland?

China isn't any more Evil than The US. Grow up.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#175

Post by bronco21016 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #102
admax88q wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google would likely achieve dominant search engine market share in China within a few years You assume that the government would ever let a foreign company get dominant market share over a domestic one. China is no where close to a free market, the winners are chosen.

China has a vested interest in spreading it's influence globally, the same way the United States has (and is receding from a bit under the current administration). It would be far more valuable to China to get a global company like Google propagating their censorship requirements than continuing to prop up their own state-run option. If Google caves, other countries might ask for the same demands as well, which suppo…

I don’t understand why this is being downvoted.

Google is dominant nearly worldwide. If China is able to get Google to cave and build the censorship machine then what barrier is there to turning the feature ‘on’ for other countries that ask for it? There are plenty of oppressive regimes interested in a censored Google but they don’t have the pull to get Google to build it right now. Once it’s built though why wouldn’t Google’s response just be shrugs “sure why not?”

I think it is indeed a slippery slope and legitimizes China’s plan to influence the internet for the worse.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#176

Post by fabiospampinato »

jerf wrote: post #112
fabiospampinato wrote: post #44

It might be interesting to hear the answer Eric Schmidt himself gave to the question: "Is Google willing to accept internet censorship to enter China?" here: https://youtu.be/3tNpYpcU5s4?t=4296 . TL;DR: He said no.

Actions speak, words don't. (I find I had to update the old aphorism for the late 20th and 21st century. After centuries of studies on how to use words to manipulate people, words are now simply nearly useless and while I'm human and I can't claim total success, I try to just ignore them now. )

Sure, mine wasn't an attempt at refuting what's happening.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#178

Post by grecy »

nimbius wrote: post #33

Pretty bold. A lot of people are saying this wont work, but speaking from my own experience, you'd be surprised what companies are amicable to when it comes to business. Im an engine mechanic by trade, and our shops handle bids for cash strapped local governments that outsource their motor pool maintenance. We do things like fire trucks and police cars, but we were working on a new regional idea as a "service center"…

> Pretty bold

It's interesting you would label this as such.

In what is ostensibly the best country in the world, and a massive proponent of free speech and human rights, you think it's bold to write a letter on the internet to your extraordinarily famous employer?

If it's considered bold in the USA involving Google, I shudder to think about anyone else doing this anywhere else.

In the year 2018 I would hope it's very much not bold to do so.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#179

Post by [deleted] »

schalab wrote: post #91
hnphillipj wrote: post #47

Given how trash of a search engine Baidu is, Google would likely achieve market share dominance in China within a couple years - should they move forward with Dragonfly. Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market. Search engine advertising constitutes close to 85% of Google's revenue. And unlike Project Maven, which was ended due to internal resistance from emplo…

Why dont western companies band together and threaten a boycott until some kind of IP laws are enforced? They just keep getting picked off one by one.

[deleted]

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#180

Post by memory_grep »

hnphillipj wrote: post #47

Given how trash of a search engine Baidu is, Google would likely achieve market share dominance in China within a couple years - should they move forward with Dragonfly. Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market. Search engine advertising constitutes close to 85% of Google's revenue. And unlike Project Maven, which was ended due to internal resistance from emplo…

> Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market.

You completely missed the point and failed to address any of the serious ethical problems they raised in the letter. We would be living in a dark dystopia if everyone's biggest priority was penetrating markets.

Tech workers are in high demand and have great salaries. Their livelihoods are not in jeapordy; they have their pick of where to work.

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