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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#341

Post by ksec »

arrrg wrote: post #213
askvictor wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland, I believe, scales fines proportionally to your income. Not perfect (the rich can more easily hide their income than the not so rich), but a good start.

The problem isn’t so much that the rich can hide their income more easily, it‘s that the value of money doesn’t increase linearly. The more money you have available, the less valuable any additional unit of money is to you and the less it hurts if money is taken away from you. Proportional fines help, but they aren’t perfectly fair.

Then fine by Net Worth and not by Income. Fine by Tax paid. And made it like the Tax system the more you have the higher percentage.

There are people who just park their car anywhere and paid parking tickets, they really don't care because it was too small amount of money.

If anything, people should realise the level of inequality has become. How unfair and unjust the system has made against the bottom half of the population.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#343

Post by usaar333 »

I'm seriously confused by what went down.

First off, why are the police even reporting this?

Secondly, what can the system even do? I'd believe a system could detect a person jaywalking.

Identifying them is a huge problem though. running facial recognition against a billion person corpus seems impossible (in fact what even is your match data coming from?). (?). Wouldn't you need to narrow it down somehow, perhaps using phone GPS records?

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#344

Post by Fnoord »

askvictor wrote: post #168
goatsi wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am lucky. I can pay that. It sucks but some people would be out food money if they suddenly had to pay $500 to drive again. Absolutely, court fees and fines disproportionately punish those with low incomes. Increasing enforcement of low level violations by surveillance tech and/or AI is going to crush a lot of people if we don't change that fact. https://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fe... http…

Finland, I believe, scales fines proportionally to your income. Not perfect (the rich can more easily hide their income than the not so rich), but a good start.

We got a point system in The Netherlands. If you get too many points, you lose your license. However it only counts for new drivers. Which doesn't make sense at all, as its elitist towards the older adults.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#345

Post by modzu »

8bitsrule wrote: post #327
jammygit wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel weird about reading sci fi for free online. I feel like its unnatural and that it should come from used bookstores like god intended. I miss used bookstores, most of the big ones in my city have closed down

According to one online source, 'jammygit', you bought several Phil Dick novels at one of those used bookstores. Maybe that's why you feel 'weird'. I also regret the loss of so many used bookstores ... one of my favorite haunts. We can only try to visit the survivors much more often.

PKD's electric sheep was one of the first things i read "online" -- via BBS baby

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#346

Post by Fnoord »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #336
jrumbut wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that many countries that have proportional fines seem to consider speeding to be somewhere close to the severity the American legal system assigns to drunk driving. It shocks me a little to think of a 14 days worth of income fine for going 45mph in a 30mph zone, yet when I think of the massive death toll from driving it's very possible my attitudes are not where they should be.

It's a bit of a tangent, but all the roads I've seen labeled 30mph or 35mph would be quite safe to take at 45. The flow of traffic is 5mph over anyway. But this is with residential roads universally at 25mph. I'm not sure what kind of road he was on.

I used to think like that when I was young. Then I learned I was short-sighted, and that every time there are traffic rules (including speeding) they (almost) always make sense. Sometimes they don't, true. If you then have contacts within the (local) government they love to get proper feedback from citizens.

To give an example: there's a school nearby where the sign says 30 km/hour. It is an important road people who live in my neighbourhood, connecting them to their home (commute, shopping, etc). I drive on my bicycle crossing that road. Do I assume people drive 30 km/hour or 50 km/hour? Cause many people drive 50 km/hour there. When kids go to/from school people might drive 30 km/hour, I don't know exactly how that works. Many might not even know there's a school there. Even though the sign says there is, perhaps that gives the mental note: "..but it is Saturday." If we're going to arbitrarily ignore traffic rules whenever we see fit, it is going to lead to chaos.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#347

Post by bicubic »

cc439 wrote: post #290
askvictor wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland, I believe, scales fines proportionally to your income. Not perfect (the rich can more easily hide their income than the not so rich), but a good start.

That just screws the middle class (~$40k to $150k). The cost of waging legal warfare against the ticket will still be greater than the inflated fine while the wealthy will easily be able to afford the kind of lawyer who can get an overworked traffic court judge and the cop who has to take a day off from fieldwork to agree to more reasonable terms. The solution to fines is to simply get rid of fines and instead use a…

> The solution to fines is to simply get rid of fines and instead use a more aggressive "point" system.

You're assuming the problem that fines address is modifying driver behaviour. It isn't. The primary problem fines address is revenue.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#348

Post by pjc50 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #333
esotericn wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're driving a car and someone walks in front of the car you'll slam on the brakes. This is independent of legality. I'd hope that it'd be the case even if laws were passed that explicitly punished braking in such a scenario. Anyway, in the UK, it's illegal to walk down the side of a motorway. But basically anywhere else is free reign for pedestrians. People don't generally walk out in front of (fast moving) car…

When I said "can", I meant by the rules, not the laws of physics. The car is morally obligated to try not to hit anyone no matter what, but that's not what I'm talking about. And the picture I have in mind isn't someone suicidally leaping in front of a car, it's someone taking one step to order the cars to stop. This would be fine if there was a "reasonable stopping rate" clause, but it doesn't sound like there is.

So what? People don't do this deliberately very often because there's always the risk that the driver doesn't stop. If you try edging into the road you'll get honked at.

The concept of jaywalking has never made any sense to me as a Brit; it's like that joke sign meme of "Danger of death and £20 fine".

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#349

Post by kakarot »

goatsi wrote: post #84
raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

>I am lucky. I can pay that. It sucks but some people would be out food money if they suddenly had to pay $500 to drive again. Absolutely, court fees and fines disproportionately punish those with low incomes. Increasing enforcement of low level violations by surveillance tech and/or AI is going to crush a lot of people if we don't change that fact. https://www.npr.org/2014/05/19/312158516/increasing-court-fe... http…

Isn't socioeconomic oppression kind of the point of all this, though?

It's not just the implementation of the justice system that needs correction; it's working exactly as designed. We have to change the entire design, not the little implementation details.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#350

Post by Udik »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #287
Udik wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I stated... somewhere, that the magnitude of your crime does not scale with your income, so scaling the fine that way does not seem logical. My favourite way of arguing in favour of fines proportional to wealth/ income is this: wealth is something that gives you the power to buy things: say better food, better houses, better cars, or even things that most people cannot afford, for example a big yacht. Depending on…

It depends on what the law is for. For example you could have a nice solid fine for littering, with half of it earmarked for public cleaning/improvement. If someone violates that and reliably pays the cost, it's win-win. They get to be lazy and the environment is improved.

Since littering means degrading the appearance of a public space for some amount of time, it's hard yo put a price on it: the maximum fine should be the cost of a person assigned exclusively to you, who immediately picks up whatever you throw to the ground and nicely dispose of it in the appropriate way. What you say would make sense in case of unpaid fares. In the case of speeding, there is no amount of money that can offset the increased risk to pedestrians and other cars.
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