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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#331

Post by bluecalm »

qw wrote: post #251
arghwhat wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither does it seem fair that I'll be fined twice as much if I work twice the hours, does it?

A fine is supposed to discourage people from breaking the law. Is it fair that wealthy people can ignore the laws because they do not feel any real consequenes? I have heard drivers who constantly break the rules, because they can easily afford the fine. To them the occasional fine is just the price they have to pay for easy parking, or saving a minute on their drive. What alternative do you suggest?

Make a fine time/labor focused not monetary. Some community service when you accumulate certain number of points will solve it. Another alternative is public shaming, I think we are too quick to reject that mechanism as society.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#332

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #112
madrox wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our current justice system never hands out false positive cards today. The real question should be if this is better than the false positive rate we have today, though that’s probably unknowable. At least when AI fails, it fails spectacularly.

No. Sometimes AI fails spectacularly, and sometimes it fails banally (not to be confused with benignly). But when it fails spectacularly it makes the papers. When it fails banally you never hear about it. Today society has a healthy skepticism of AI because it's new and untried. But some day that will change. AI will get better, and the spectacular failures in particular will be reigned in. Nonetheless, it will still…

[deleted]

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#333

Post by Dylan16807 »

esotericn wrote: post #311
Dylan16807 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it works fine in practice, but it's still not ideal if you can put one foot into the street and oblige cars to slam on their brakes.

If you're driving a car and someone walks in front of the car you'll slam on the brakes. This is independent of legality. I'd hope that it'd be the case even if laws were passed that explicitly punished braking in such a scenario. Anyway, in the UK, it's illegal to walk down the side of a motorway. But basically anywhere else is free reign for pedestrians. People don't generally walk out in front of (fast moving) car…

When I said "can", I meant by the rules, not the laws of physics. The car is morally obligated to try not to hit anyone no matter what, but that's not what I'm talking about.

And the picture I have in mind isn't someone suicidally leaping in front of a car, it's someone taking one step to order the cars to stop. This would be fine if there was a "reasonable stopping rate" clause, but it doesn't sound like there is.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#334

Post by jrumbut »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #281
asmosoinio wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - a well-known example was Anssi Vanjoki (former Nokia director) getting a fine of 116,000 euros for driving 75 km/h in a 50 zone. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1759791.stm I have heard of other countries that have similar systems.

Huge fines for the rich are amusing but scaling that part of the cost doesn't address the core problem very well. Actually, a fee of 14 days of income sounds crippling to someone who's poor, so that's an example of it not helping at all .

It should be noted that many countries that have proportional fines seem to consider speeding to be somewhere close to the severity the American legal system assigns to drunk driving.

It shocks me a little to think of a 14 days worth of income fine for going 45mph in a 30mph zone, yet when I think of the massive death toll from driving it's very possible my attitudes are not where they should be.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#335

Post by Dylan16807 »

eponeponepon wrote: post #297
Dylan16807 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it works fine in practice, but it's still not ideal if you can put one foot into the street and oblige cars to slam on their brakes.

No, that wouldn't be ideal - but that's also not how it is.

Well you're the expert here, can you please tell me why I'm wrong? I'm just trying to go by your earlier explanation. I'd like to be wrong here!

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#336

Post by Dylan16807 »

jrumbut wrote: post #334
Dylan16807 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge fines for the rich are amusing but scaling that part of the cost doesn't address the core problem very well. Actually, a fee of 14 days of income sounds crippling to someone who's poor, so that's an example of it not helping at all .

It should be noted that many countries that have proportional fines seem to consider speeding to be somewhere close to the severity the American legal system assigns to drunk driving. It shocks me a little to think of a 14 days worth of income fine for going 45mph in a 30mph zone, yet when I think of the massive death toll from driving it's very possible my attitudes are not where they should be.

It's a bit of a tangent, but all the roads I've seen labeled 30mph or 35mph would be quite safe to take at 45. The flow of traffic is 5mph over anyway. But this is with residential roads universally at 25mph. I'm not sure what kind of road he was on.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#337

Post by dang »

arghwhat wrote: post #191

Yes, but even hidden, it's probably still going to appear quite significant, and I do believe that at some point, the fine size becomes nonsensical. But then again, I do not think that who you are or what you have should change the magnitude of the crime you commit. I don't think it is sensible that I should get greater fines because I chose to bust my ass and suffer from stress to gain more for my family, whereas I…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18529049 and marked it off-topic.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#338

Post by NeedMoreTea »

shaklee3 wrote: post #319
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had jaywalking laws. Most countries don't. We have crossings too, of course, which are optional, but sensible to use when it's rush hours etc. There's no sign that our collisions or injuries are disproportionately high. A pedestrian crosses when they feel it is safe to do so, and anywhere along the road they choose. Having started to cross they have priority over traffic. Lately some drivers are less inc…

I googled this quickly, and I'm seeing the UK has 36 deaths per billion miles driven [1] and USA is 1.7 [2]. Can you cite your sources that the UK isn't disproportionately high? I could be reading the numbers wrong. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [2] https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

That disparity is unbelievable. Even allowing the 15 year difference. The UK consistently comes surprisingly well toward the safest end of global road safety stats, and has as long as I can remember. By way of sanity check, it would mean walking in the USA is safer than driving a car in the UK (1.9/bn m). That's not credible. :)

Sourced from gov.uk [0] (ods spreadsheet file), pedestrian fatalities, in 2016, are 7.1 per million population in the United Kingdom; 470 pedestrians killed, and 18.5 in the USA; 5,987 pedestrians killed, confirmed for USA by NHTSA[1].

For overall road traffic deaths, in 2015 UK 2.9 per 100k population (1,770 total deaths) 22.9% pedestrians, USA 10.6 per 100k (32,719 total deaths, approx 5x the UK population, 18x the total reported deaths) 14.1% pedestrians, source WHO, table A2 [2].

Every international comparison and US source I found prefers per 100k or million population and agrees with the above. I stopped there, so can't compare the gov.uk doc you linked, or why the US data in BMJ differs so markedly.

[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/ras52-in... (Download RAS52001)

[1] https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... (PDF. Note they report per 100,000 not million, so it's 1.85)

[2] http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/road_safety_st...

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#339

Post by [deleted] »

shaklee3 wrote: post #319
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK has never had jaywalking laws. Most countries don't. We have crossings too, of course, which are optional, but sensible to use when it's rush hours etc. There's no sign that our collisions or injuries are disproportionately high. A pedestrian crosses when they feel it is safe to do so, and anywhere along the road they choose. Having started to cross they have priority over traffic. Lately some drivers are less inc…

I googled this quickly, and I'm seeing the UK has 36 deaths per billion miles driven [1] and USA is 1.7 [2]. Can you cite your sources that the UK isn't disproportionately high? I could be reading the numbers wrong. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [2] https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

[deleted]

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#340

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

raleigh_user wrote: post #44

Heres further proof the justice system is screwed. Yesterday I was stopped while driving for not having current tags. Registration was renewed but I didn't have the sticker yet. Cop looked at my paperwork said all good be back in 5. Come to find out, I haven't had a valid license in 5 years. There was a mistake in court 5 years ago when I paid a fine (speeding ticket). I have a receipt from court saying all settled/m…

I was pulled over multiple times in NJ while driving with a valid, registered out of state license plate. Somebody's LPR software is conveniently flagging valid plates as an excuse to make traffic stops.
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