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Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

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Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#81

Post by linksnapzz »

ryanmonroe wrote: post #40
fareesh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said it seems like the local governments in both these places which share the same politics, are involved in actively holding back the local police force from doing their jobs. Is it not reasonable to hold the local government responsible for safety on the train? Given their track record for asking the police to be hands off, isn't the prevalence of unchecked crime in trains, crime on campuses and crime on the…

I don't see it. Crime is up on the subway, so you think this is part of a politically motivated strategy to "[hold] back the police force from doing their jobs"? The article says they have a lot of vacancies. Maybe they can't find people who want the job? Maybe their budget for policeman salaries doesn't fare well compared to the area housing prices? I could think of quite a few possible reasons for a rise in crime b…

There’s no political group supporting these robbers

Sure there are. I know how to easily identify them, too.

If, perchance, one of the robbers is shot and killed while committing an armed robbery, look to see which groups are more concerned about punishing the shooter than blaming the criminal. Insofar as this is California, it will be a substantial list.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#82

Post by iknowstuff »

userbinator wrote: post #73
Bud wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should do absolutely anything other than increasing the number of guns in a crowded, enclosed space.

The more likely it is for criminals to be fatally shot by everyone around them if they try to do anything, the less likely they're going to try --- even if they themselves have a gun, they're going to be outnumbered.

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/80rno0/fatal_school...

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#83

Post by nodesocket »

ransom1538 wrote: post #13

If you take BART and ride into Oakland -- you are on your own. There is no one that will protect you. My next door neighbor was assaulted. She was brutalized. Sigh. It was bad. THEN she went home, reported it with police. This is where it gets weird. The people that assaulted her -- armed with her ID card went to her APARTMENT -- luckly she was somewhere else with her parents. The people that brutalized her ransacked…

This ideology of inaction, or "nothing" we can do about it, is a phenomenon unique to the bay area. I used to live there, and it is one of the reasons I left. Criminal activity is not pursued, bad behavior is not penalized. I'm sure there are many reasons, but I suspect a big factor is that police and politicians are afraid of cracking down due to the political fallout and backlash. There is a palpable disdain for police officers there.

The ironic thing is the people who are mostly likely voters and taxpayers are the ones who are fed up with the crime and leaving.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#84

Post by rdtsc »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #6

Yeah, BART police is a joke. I don’t remember ever seeing a BART police officer riding a train with me. I rarely see them in stations. Getting in and out without paying almost seems easier than paying. SF and Oakland officers never stroll through stations, which is so obviously wrong from a public safety standpoint, yet it seems to be policy. Then again I rarely see SF police officers walking the streets as it is. Ye…

Wonder how it compares with other systems like these in Europe or say Japan. Do police patrol there. Wonder if there is another way to fix this. Say figure out why does crime even become an option at all. Lack of jobs, opportunities, etc.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#85

Post by JPKab »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #42
anothergoogler wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want somebody shooting for any reason on the BART.

Agreed. I don't want to be caught in the cross-fire between a criminal and a layman trying to be a hero.

What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. What if they are just exercising their right to protect themselves or their family?

When the police in a municipality have the monopoly right to posess and use force to protect citizens, then citizens should expect them to actually keep them safe. If they fail in this duty, citizens should have recourse.

Oakland in particular has a very difficult problem prosecuting criminals. The "stop snitching" culture that is prevalent in urban, black communities, combined with historical mistrust of police, translates to no cooperation and no arrests. Criminals aren't being deterred, and are acting with impunity. Probability is on b your side in keeping you safe, until one day you're the unlucky target. You won't be able to defend yourself, the other riders will not help and will pretend to not see you, and you will feel the helplessness that I once felt when I was savagely beaten by several laughing teens in DC next to a metro station. None of them were caught, but the police were sure helpful in telling me that the station I went to was a bad place for white people to go and I shouldn't go there anymore.

Layman with weapons isn't ideal, but neither is the delusion that the police can keep you safe in an area rife with cultural dysfunction and the young, borderline psyco men who target anyone that looks like they are productive for predation.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#86

Post by darpa_escapee »

JPKab wrote: post #85
darpa_escapee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I don't want to be caught in the cross-fire between a criminal and a layman trying to be a hero.

What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero. What if they are just exercising their right to protect themselves or their family? When the police in a municipality have the monopoly right to posess and use force to protect citizens, then citizens should expect them to actually keep them safe. If they fail in this duty, citizens should have recourse. Oakland in particular has a very difficult problem prosecuting crim…

> What if that layman isn't trying to be a hero.

Stray bullets don't care about the shooter's intentions.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#87

Post by darpa_escapee »

stickfigure wrote: post #64
darpa_escapee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I don't want to be caught in the cross-fire between a criminal and a layman trying to be a hero.

I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths. There can't be that many criminals. The steady-state equilibrium might be safer than the current regime, which is that criminals can assault (and kill) with little risk to themselves. Of course I'd like my chance of death-by-bullet to be zero. But for whatever re…

> I know this sounds crazy, but I'd be willing to tolerate a modest number of bystander deaths if it meant a dramatic uptick in the number of criminal deaths.

I'm of the opinion that it's better for a criminal to walk free than for an innocent person to be punished or killed for something they have nothing to do with.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#88

Post by AndrewKemendo »

I'm sure that some other people have run into this scam on BART but I had it happen a few years ago.

Right before the doors close at the SFO BART stop headed to Milbrae, a guy runs on all out of breath yelling and pleading for money to get a ticket for his sick daughter. He's a war vet and needs to get her to the hospital in Travis but they won't let her on the plane for some reason etc...Does this till the Milbrae stop and I assume gets on going back and does it again.

When I told him I'd help him if he could just produce his mil-ID or VA-ID he came over and flashed a wad of 50's and 100's and threateningly said "I don't need to show you shit." Then went back to his histrionics.

Obviously this wasn't an attack, or illegal but it was pretty brazen, as it was in front of everyone and he didn't even seem to care that everyone saw his huge wad of cash. Most of the people I see doing illegal stuff on BART (and even on WMATA here in DC) don't really seem to think anyone is going to stop them and they seem to be right most of the time.

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#89

Post by nradov »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #39
ryanmonroe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this story related to these political movements you're describing? The events in the article seem like the usual robberies, unrelated to any political cause.

First off, I'm almost positive the "political movement" is Antifa. No need to beat around the bush. The alleged connection, if I'm reading GP right, is the shackling of police due to political pressure, and a more general breakdown in law and order. I'm not sure the Bart police are restrained from above, as it could also be a lack of resources that prevents them from patrolling the trains on foot. But a growing disre…

There was the notorious incident in 2016 when the San Jose Police stood down and allowed rioters to violently assault Trump campaign supporters.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/27/appeals-court-trump-s...

Re: Lawyer: ‘It’s a Free for All’ for Criminals on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit)

#90

Post by mc32 »

If BART wants its ridership to feel safe they need two things: increase officer presence (and prosecute vigorously) and two add cameras all over their properties. No fake pretend cameras. Deter and prosecute violators. Looking the other way when things happen, slaps on the wrists, etc., don’t work.

I think BART is shy because at least there is one incident of manslaughter by one of their officers. On the other hand not having officers also leads to death and assuaults of passengers and loss of ridership.

Have a strict code of conduct, enforce it vigorously, train officers properly and educate riders via station and in car infation systems.

Otherwise it risks going into a service death spiral.

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