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AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

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Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#21

Post by icebraining »

reaperducer wrote: post #11
icebraining wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. They said the same thing about banking when we got ATM's. But banking has only gotten worse, more impersonal, and more frustrating and alienating for the average person.

Has it? I don't know, the people I know never had a good relationship with their banks. Plus, there were other changes; at least in some places, banks were much smaller than today. Is it not true where you live? If it is, couldn't that have the effects you describe?

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#22

Post by tjoff »

icebraining wrote: post #12
maxxxxx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know an Android dev who had his Play account shut down for an unjustified reason. It took him a very long time to reactivate it. Especially the little guy doesn't get much attention from humans. That was a few years ago. Maybe it's better now.

I'm not saying Google's support is good. I'm saying the automation is not necessarily the culprit for its ills.

I'd say that the automation enables it to be an order of magnitude worse. And it will be worse for any entity that doesn't really care about it.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#23

Post by rocqua »

icebraining wrote: post #6
maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Add to that a justice system also mostly automated and you are quickly caught in a Kafkaesque nightmare you can't get out if something goes wrong. Imagine the justice system run like google support. Even if something is clearly wrong you can't clear it up if you are not a famous person with a big Twitter following.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

If the escalation is accessible, everyone will try it. That includes anyone who got handled correctly. And as detection becomes more accurate, an even larger ratio of escalations will be blatantly wrong.

This explains why slightly inept well meaning companies shy away from such escalation paths. I wonder about the stats on appeals in court. How many are successful. How many go to an appeal at all. How costly is a single appeal / how costly is the average successful appeal.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#24

Post by jschwartzi »

reaperducer wrote: post #11
icebraining wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. They said the same thing about banking when we got ATM's. But banking has only gotten worse, more impersonal, and more frustrating and alienating for the average person.

USAA has only one physical location in San Antonio but they've never failed to be courteous and helpful over the phone. And their app is a great replacement for a physical location for most of my banking needs.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#25

Post by icebraining »

goto11 wrote: post #15
crazygringo wrote: post #5

That's absolutely hilarious. But at least it was easily fixed. But to anyone complaining about how this is dystopian: compare it to human police officers who can racially profile and exhibit their prejudices to disproportionately target segments of the population, and which there is absolutely zero easy fix for, especially when we consider how prevalent unconscious bias is. At least an automated system can be analyze…

So who is going to analyze the automated systems for bias and correct it? If it is impossible to identify and fix unfair bias in humans, presumably it is impossible to fix in the human overseers of this system. This is one area where technology will not save us.

It could be a matter of scale - being able to improve the bias in a human doesn't mean you can do so for all 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the US (or any other country).

On the other hand, you can update 900,000 computer processes in a relatively short time.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#26

Post by tivert »

icebraining wrote: post #6
maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Add to that a justice system also mostly automated and you are quickly caught in a Kafkaesque nightmare you can't get out if something goes wrong. Imagine the justice system run like google support. Even if something is clearly wrong you can't clear it up if you are not a famous person with a big Twitter following.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

> have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

While that's true in the abstract, I don't think it's true in present society. Both private companies and government are under near-constant pressure to cut costs, and the people who are charged with implementing those cuts will be tempted to under-resource the human override team or cut it entirely. Quality of service isn't the priority.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#27

Post by rocqua »

roymurdock wrote: post #13
crazygringo wrote: post #5

That's absolutely hilarious. But at least it was easily fixed. But to anyone complaining about how this is dystopian: compare it to human police officers who can racially profile and exhibit their prejudices to disproportionately target segments of the population, and which there is absolutely zero easy fix for, especially when we consider how prevalent unconscious bias is. At least an automated system can be analyze…

there will always be humans programming and running these systems at the end of the day. in the best case they will be heavily audited and will not be allowed to make important decisions. in the worst case biases will be programmed into the systems decision making algorithms, amplifying the power of those controlling the systems one of the best systems we've come up with for government relies on biased actors fightin…

A machine can be tested for bias and measures taken against such bias are certainly followed.

The same does not hold for humans. Detecting the bias (down to the person level) is very hard. Going on to remedy it is even harder. You can't (or at least shouldn't) reprogram people.

In other words, you can change a racist machine, but not a racist cop.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#28

Post by james_s_tayler »

maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Add to that a justice system also mostly automated and you are quickly caught in a Kafkaesque nightmare you can't get out if something goes wrong. Imagine the justice system run like google support. Even if something is clearly wrong you can't clear it up if you are not a famous person with a big Twitter following.

I just finished reading The Secret Barrister and it already seems to be the case, at least in the UK, that if something is wrong you can't really clear it up.

Re: AI Mistakes Bus-Side Ad for Famous CEO, Charges Her With Jaywalking

#29

Post by bertil »

reaperducer wrote: post #11
icebraining wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. Similarly, Google could have a mostly automated system detecting violations and such, and also a good human support system with power to override the decisions of the former; the two are not really incompatible.

On the other hand, a justice system which has most of the menial tasks automated might have more resources to do the important tasks well. They said the same thing about banking when we got ATM's. But banking has only gotten worse, more impersonal, and more frustrating and alienating for the average person.

I can‘t defend most banks but (I live in the in UK and) I’ve switch to Monzo who was explicitly built with that in mind: they manage to automate a lot of interactions, save on agencies, etc. explicitly to be able to invest more on services. This allows them to offer a visibly far better service. Thanks to automation, they have been profitable for a couple of months now (with a million customers) and have now switched on growth mechanisms.

Disclosure: I know several people working there but I have never used my contacts for preferential customer service, nor would I expect that the service could be better than the standard one.

Generally, I think that the incredible gains from automation are possible but require a lot of internal changes to make sense; changes that most companies do not have the leadership to conduct. This s why new actors often take advantage of those. I suspect that’s why Google replaced Encyclopedia Brittanica and countless more examples.

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