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‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

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Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#81
post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

> Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive.

This feels a little unsubstantiated.

Wealth inequality has never been higher than it is today. Species extinction rates have never been higher than today. There are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical about the future.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#82
post #22

So, perhaps the author is correct about the film's ending, but that's not the way I interpreted it when I first saw it. Rather, it seemed to me that the scientist from the future was there to insure that the disease did, in fact, spread, even if Bruce Willis' character stopped the original source from getting on the plane. She was either a carrier (a Typhoid Mary of sorts), or else had her own vial. I thought it sugg…

I'm glad I read this article because I never understood the ending that way. I'm probably kind of dumb, but for me, the scientist at the end, on the plane, was just there as part of the normal timeline. I never imagined that she travelled from the future, I thought it was just her character before the epidemic :)

Actually I do recall wondering about that possibility, but she didn't seem young enough. But perhaps it was intended to be ambiguous. Judging from this discussion, if that was the objective they nailed it.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#83
post #77
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "All right!" It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. > "I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided." There was nothing hostile about it, just facts. Making those posts without sources is worse than useless if your goal is really to convince people you are correct. > "Did you…

It isnt exceptional to ask for a source, no need for sarcasm. It is exceptional to expect or require sources for well-known ideas to be attached to every comment that alludes to or evokes them. None of us needed sources to understand the point that the OP was making. can you extract the most relevant quotes from each and attach to your claims? The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for s…

>"The trend here is that it will not be good enough for you. You asked for sources and got them. Now you are expanding your request. What's next in your list of demands after he extracts the most relevant quotes from each?"

I said, "at least" have sources. That is like the bare minimum. Here is a post I made earlier today that meets my standards: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18522479

You can find many posts in my history that have a similar format.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#84
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth . Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break…

If you don't produce more than you consume (i.e. grow), how do you sustain yourself?

There's a difference between growing enough food to have enough to eat plus some reserves and buying a new smartphone every year, a new car every few years, new clothes every month, etc.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right! https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/india-climate-chang... https://qz.com/india/1049730/heatwaves-could-turn-parts-of-i... https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/07/africa/sudan-climate-change/i... I'm curious why you felt that such a hostile response was justified. You could have just said "I'd like to see a source for that" and I would happily have provided. Did you really think I was just making up lies, and…

The facts are a keystroke away, plain as day, shouted for years upon deaf ears. People who ask you to Google for them these answers aren't arguing in good faith. There's nothing left to debate, the details were figured out a long time ago. At this point, I'm convinced that there are zero climate skeptics who really want to find answers; it's all willful ignorance or malice. It's comically stupid how the obvious truth…

It isn't about facts or "truth" or "99.9% of scientists saying" we are screwed. That isn't how science/engineering works, its how politics works. Perhaps that is why there is difficulty communicating across the gap.

Do you have a source for that last one by the way (99.9 % of scientists saying we are screwed)?

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#86
post #80
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first link doesnt even contain a proper link/reference to their primary source (unless I missed it). The second (at least the annotated version) does contain some good links, eg to the IPCC AR5 homepage. The AR5 is a thousand pages long document... and this page itself is also quite long (nothing wrong with that, but you should quote the section of interest). But lets look at the second source a bit closer. Their…

It wasn't me who made the claim. It's what I found with a 30-second google. Here's another with links to two primary sources. https://www.cyi.ac.cy/index.php/in-focus/climate-exodus-expe... There's plenty more. To really dive in, go with Six Degrees .

Sorry, it is even clear which claim you are referring to at this point. Also, if you believe something so strongly why do you not have a go-to source for the information that lead to that belief? Why, exactly do I believe this is an important question to ask yourself (about everything)? It is just something unimaginable to me to not really know why I thought civilization is going to collapse and resort to 30 second googlings.

I guess in the end it is that book 6 degrees for you. If so, ok. I will check it out.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#87
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

The root cause of all of this: an economic system predicated on the notion of growth . Unrestrained greed, sole focus on maximization of profit, and unlimited growth. It's not enough to sell as many mobile phones as you did last year, no, you must sell 10% more each quarter, or whatever. Doesn't matter if you're mining the earth bare, generating millions of tons of garbage, optimising for inferior products that break…

I love the animations of Steve Cutts that demonstrate some of this quite well, like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTTr7RGH37c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8bNDw6Ftc

http://www.stevecutts.com/

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#88
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't produce more than you consume (i.e. grow), how do you sustain yourself?

There's a difference between growing enough food to have enough to eat plus some reserves and buying a new smartphone every year, a new car every few years, new clothes every month, etc.

So are you going to stop accumulating wealth in your own life and just sustain at your current level based on your basic bodily needs?

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#89
post #86
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't me who made the claim. It's what I found with a 30-second google. Here's another with links to two primary sources. https://www.cyi.ac.cy/index.php/in-focus/climate-exodus-expe... There's plenty more. To really dive in, go with Six Degrees .

Sorry, it is even clear which claim you are referring to at this point. Also, if you believe something so strongly why do you not have a go-to source for the information that lead to that belief? Why, exactly do I believe this is an important question to ask yourself (about everything)? It is just something unimaginable to me to not really know why I thought civilization is going to collapse and resort to 30 second g…

That book, Hansen's, and a stack of others. I resort to googlings because most people online appreciate something they can read immediately.

But I don't think civilization is going to collapse. I think it is at high risk of collapsing if we don't take strong preventive measures.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#90
post #69

It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it. Is there some name for the phenomenon that as things get better, our assessment of where things stand seems to get more and more pessimistic? I feel like you see this in issues of racial and gender equality as well. Things are so much better t…

Nuclear holocaust would have been caused and was prevented by just a few people. It would have been an action with a direct result. We could and did also just stop with the nonsense. We dont have that option for climate change. We have a worsening situation and no realistic option to stop or even reverse things. Differently put, nuclear holocaust was a threat, climate change an active process.

we faced the very real threat of nuclear annihilation at any moment. It's terrifying how close we came

nuclear holocaust was a threat

I don't understand why these days people talk and act as if there's no risk of nuclear catastrophe. The effect of that seems to me incomparably worse than global warming. Yet no-one seems to talk about it anymore. I read on HN sometimes people saying they won't have kids because global warming etc, but never similar reference to nuclear war.

I just looked up the famous Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists doomsday clock[0], which I hadn't heard about in years. Frighteningly, it is currently at 2 minutes to midnight, as close as it's ever been. Closer than it was at any time in the 60s, 70s, 80s. This is from the 2018 report[1]:

In 2017, world leaders failed to respond effectively to the looming threats of nuclear war and climate change, making the world security situation more dangerous than it was a year ago—and as dangerous as it has been since World War II.

The greatest risks last year arose in the nuclear realm. ... To call the world nuclear situation dire is to understate the danger—and its immediacy.

On the climate change front, the danger may seem less immediate, but avoiding catastrophic temperature increases in the long run requires urgent attention now. ...

But there has also been a breakdown in the international order that has been dangerously exacerbated by recent US actions. In 2017, the United States backed away from its long- standing leadership role in the world, reducing its commitment to seek common ground and undermining the overall effort toward solving pressing global governance challenges. Neither allies nor adversaries have been able to reliably predict US actions—or understand when US pronouncements are real, and when they are mere rhetoric. International diplomacy has been reduced to name-calling, giving it a surrealistic sense of unreality that makes the world security situation ever more threatening.

Because of the extraordinary danger of the current moment, the Science and Security Board today moves the minute hand of the Doomsday Clock 30 seconds closer to catastrophe. It is now two minutes to midnight—the closest the Clock has ever been to Doomsday, and as close as it was in 1953, at the height of the Cold War.

[0] https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/past-statements/

[1] https://thebulletin.org/sites/default/files/2018%20Doomsday%...

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