Chicken Pox is a harmless right of passage as a child. Better to get it young than old when it has serious complications. I don’t know why we need a vaccine for this except for adults who missed it as children.
Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#92Chicken Pox is a harmless right of passage as a child. Better to get it young than old when it has serious complications. I don’t know why we need a vaccine for this except for adults who missed it as children.
It's not harmless for some. Quoting from the CDC at https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/surveillance/monitoring-varic... :
"In the early 1990s, an average of 4 million people got varicella, 10,500 to 13,000 were hospitalized (range, 8,000 to 18,000), and 100 to 150 died each year."
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might be able to discriminate against potential employees based on their obvious stupidity, but you might be on less certain ground when they claim it is a religious viewpoint?
Which religions forbid immunisation?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_and_religion
> Christian Science selectively rejects various forms of medical care including vaccination.[14][15] The Congregation of Universal Wisdom, a religion based on belief in chiropractic spinal adjustments and Universal Intelligence, forbids vaccinations
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might be able to discriminate against potential employees based on their obvious stupidity, but you might be on less certain ground when they claim it is a religious viewpoint?
Which religions forbid immunisation?
Some Orthodox Protestants claim it interferes with 'divine providence'.
If an animal is used at any process in production, some Buddhists will argue it goes against the precepts. Some vaccines are grown in chicken eggs so there's some basis for arguing the manufacturing process takes a life.
As far as I know, those are the only remotely valid claims that vaccines violate a religion's beliefs aside from Christian Science.
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most children are covered for varicella vaccination through Medicaid or parent's insurance, as well as all the ACIP recommended vaccinations.
I mean on top of the cost. Just reward people for getting the vaccination. Normally you gotta persuade people or pay them for the inconvenience to get them to do something for you.
People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money.
http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what... gives a well-known account of how monetary incentives don't always work, in that case with late fees for parents who are tardy picking up their children from day care.
> The picture that emerged from this experiment, co-authored with Aldo Rustichini, was that parents had a whole set of non-financial incentives for being on time – incentives that were completely incompatible with money. Like, for example, avoiding the guilt of inconveniencing the day care workers. As soon as parents had the option to pay a small fine and avoid that guilt, they took it en masse.
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Repeating yourself doesn't make it sound any less ignorant. You are not a good parent in 2018 if you're intentionally getting your kid sick with chickenpox instead of getting them vaccinated instead. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/acip-recs/index.html It is an ACIP recommended vaccine for at least a decade, which means all state Mediciad recipients can get it for free or for a low cost co-pay. There is no good reas…
Right, it's only been on the childhood vaccine schedule for 10 years. Most people don't know that nor that there's even a vaccine available for it. Chickenpox is such a mild childhood event that it's widely just assumed that your children just need to get infected with it and a week later they have lifetime immunity. Something like 95% of all adults today had Chickenpox as a child and most people have probably forgot…
>Right, it's only been on the childhood vaccine schedule for 10 years. Most people don't know that nor that there's even a vaccine available for it.
Indeed, this thread is how I learned there is a vaccine for it.
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I was a child, and for generations preceding me, it was very common (almost universal) to seek out children with Chickenpox and to get your children infected with it (something like 95% of all adults alive today went through this ritual). The reasoning being that the childhood version of it is relatively mild while getting it fresh as an adult was potentially deadly. I think when I was growing up the guidance wa…
You are right, up to two decades ago it was normal, and indeed a good practice, to try exposing kids to varicella when they are young. Now that there is a safe vaccine, the better choice is vaccination because 1. Varicella is almost always mild in children, but in rare cases it can be dangerous (and these rare cases are more frequent and more severe of adverse reactions to the vaccine), and 2. Vaccination reduces the…
Absolutely. I'm reacting to the display of judgy mcjudgysons on display here by the young whippersnappers who think the world was always what they started paying attention to in the last few years as they emerged into adulthood.
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#98This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio. They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow. But I w…
You might be able to discriminate against potential employees based on their obvious stupidity, but you might be on less certain ground when they claim it is a religious viewpoint?
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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#99So my dad worked in international development his whole life. A big part of it was helping deploy vaccinations to countries around the world. When he was a child in Bangladesh, 1 out of 3 kids died before age 5. Today it’s down to 1 in 25, thanks in large part of vaccination. People in the third world, with vastly inferior education systems, understand the importance of vaccinations and are lining up to get them. So…
There's a weird phenomena at play where ignorance has been advertised as a virtue and willful ignorance can be used as a superiority or virtue signal and used to socially position people above others in the same way that other beliefs and belief purity tests end up harming the believer. It seems to be fed by a bizarre ecosystem of pseudo-information that fill the minds of people and discourage critical thinking -- an…
I think its caused by disenfranchisemnt. When you feel like you have no control or are involved in decision making, it's easy for that to break down trust. That's what I see in myself, and those around me.
Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean on top of the cost. Just reward people for getting the vaccination. Normally you gotta persuade people or pay them for the inconvenience to get them to do something for you.
People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money. http://freakonomics.com/2013/10/23/what-makes-people-do-what... gives a well-known account of how monetary incentives don't always work, in that case with late fees for parents who are tardy picking up their children from day care. > The picture that emerged from this experiment, co-authored with Aldo Rustichini, was tha…
> People don't work that way. For example, I suspect some will decide to hold out for higher money.
Which is fine, you dont need 100% vaccination rate to get herd immunity. The value of the last people getting a vax is low.
Bear in mind people already pay a price but refusing to get vaccinated in time.
Also, i would be very surprised to find that the solution to "hold-outs" would be forcefully doing it to them, in almost any scenario.