71–80 of 108 posts
We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?
What better way to persuade than to pay for it.
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or just make vaccines mandatory for every child able to have them?
Actually, in Australia we prevented childcare payments for those who conscientiously object. Religious grounds aren’t accepted. It’s called “no jab, no pay”.[1] It has arrested the slide in vaccinations, and in fact increased the vaccination rate by a few percent. We also have strongly endured that groups like the Australian Vaccination Network are curtailed. They are now called the Australian Vaccination-risks Netwo…
A responsbility approach would be a health insurance on third parties.
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Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate? The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected? Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?
Let's say a particular disease requires 80% of the population to be vaccinated to provide herd immunity (this percentage varies by disease). You are extremely unlikely to have 20% of the population have AIDS or otherwise be so immuno-compromised so that they cannot get a vaccine, so everyone is safe. The anti-vaxxers come along and free-ride, and for 10+ years, they think the are brilliant -- their kids do not get th…
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Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate? The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected? Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?
If you mean HIV, which most intelligent people would understand that it is the cause of the syndrome called AIDS, then it is much more difficult to contract that Chickenpox. Either via blood transfusion or sex, both of which are controllable by the infected. If the infected choose to bring the risk to others and infect them, they can be held criminally liable.
So my dad worked in international development his whole life. A big part of it was helping deploy vaccinations to countries around the world. When he was a child in Bangladesh, 1 out of 3 kids died before age 5. Today it’s down to 1 in 25, thanks in large part of vaccination. People in the third world, with vastly inferior education systems, understand the importance of vaccinations and are lining up to get them. So…
People in developed countries are not confronted in the same way by fatal childhood diseases and have the luxury to ignore the consequences of avoiding vaccinations, thanks to advanced healthcare and to the herd protection provided by the majority of responsible parents who vaccinate their children.
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What better way to persuade than to pay for it.
Most children are covered for varicella vaccination through Medicaid or parent's insurance, as well as all the ACIP recommended vaccinations.
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> if you're not immunized, we won't cover your hospitalization; and refuse to hire people who's immunizations aren't up to date. Can this also apply for alcohol drinking, unhealthy food habits, lack of exercise?
No, because lack of immunizations endangers your coworkers by compromising herd immunity, while unhealthy eating habits do not.
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Your questions are easily answered via Google. You clearly have an agenda here.
I have been wrong about a lot of stuff in the past. The reason I like discussing things here on HN is because there's a higher threshold of logic over emotions. An agenda means I am somehow spreading misinformation. But I am not. Read all my comments, I am asking a logic questions challenging some old historical beliefs that have changed and emotional reactions.
I wouldn’t vote you down or have commented if you would just say you don’t believe there is any data to substantiate a claim. But you are clearly trying to ask questions not to illuminate, but to try to advance your agenda.
I will straight out ask you - do you believe vaccines are effective? And do you believe they are dangerous and shouldn’t be given to children?
So my dad worked in international development his whole life. A big part of it was helping deploy vaccinations to countries around the world. When he was a child in Bangladesh, 1 out of 3 kids died before age 5. Today it’s down to 1 in 25, thanks in large part of vaccination. People in the third world, with vastly inferior education systems, understand the importance of vaccinations and are lining up to get them. So…
I remember reading some papers and articles on this and how it kind of hacks the minds of people by playing to base insecurities. Critical thought is not really a natural state of humans, so it can be very easy to subvert.
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Maybe I am interpreting him too charitably, but I don't assume he has an agenda. I am wondering if the Wikipedia article needs to point out how the game theory works for those who are unfamiliar with such things.
I appreciate you even taking the time to comment. I don't know much about game theory, but how does that apply to vaccines?
In one of your replies you ask, "Other comments state that anyone can carry the virus, even vaccinated people though..."
Vaccinated people will fight off the virus and reproduce a lot fewer copies before their immune system knocks it out. This is effectively near zero compared to a vaccinated person.
As for game theory, every person is making a choice (or his parents are). One can be a "free rider" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity#Free_riding). If there are too many free riders in the population, any infection will ripple through it into those who are not vaccinated.
It's totally fine for a small number of people to be unvaccinated. When they start using Twitter and it becomes a large enough number, the population crosses the tipping point, infecting the unvaccinated who benefited from the herd immunity.