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Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#41

Post by jesseb »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #28
jesseb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Shingles is awful, for one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

Shingles and adult chickenpox are the reasons the UK National Health Service does not vaccinate against chickenpox. https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/childrens-health/... They do vaccinate pregnant women who never got chickenpox and people with weakened immune system, though.

That's quite interesting, my government recommends people (specifically children it seems, however) get the vaccination. I'll have to read into that, thanks for the link.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization...

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#42

Post by chris_wot »

cmsj wrote: post #3
methodover wrote: post #2

We need to figure out how to better persuade people to get their kids vaccinated. Perhaps a mix of education targeted at families who claim these exemptions, and fines to represent the negative externality of their choices?

or just make vaccines mandatory for every child able to have them?

Actually, in Australia we prevented childcare payments for those who conscientiously object. Religious grounds aren’t accepted. It’s called “no jab, no pay”.[1]

It has arrested the slide in vaccinations, and in fact increased the vaccination rate by a few percent.

We also have strongly endured that groups like the Australian Vaccination Network are curtailed. They are now called the Australian Vaccination-risks Network, by court order after a statutory body the NSW HCCC pursued them.

You don’t need to make vaccines mandatory, you just need to have consequences for those who refuse; and you need to go after groups who peddle in lies.

https://beta.health.gov.au/file/1126/download?token=nF1qzHkN

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#43

Post by rayiner »

conanbatt wrote: post #21
cmurf wrote: post #18

This was chickenpox. Imagine if it were rubella. Or polio. They can't be physically or economically coerced by a government because of the religious exemption, so far that's the law of the land as the Supreme Court conservative shift gave us the Hobby Lobby case. So there's nothing to do about it legally in the near term, short of something so horrific that even the conservative court reverses itself somehow. But I w…

> if you're not immunized, we won't cover your hospitalization; and refuse to hire people who's immunizations aren't up to date. Can this also apply for alcohol drinking, unhealthy food habits, lack of exercise?

No, because lack of immunizations endangers your coworkers by compromising herd immunity, while unhealthy eating habits do not.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#44

Post by dhimes »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #26
shepardrtc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

Again, _everyone_ got it when we were kids. You can die of a cold if your body is weak enough.

I was raised as you were regarding this. However, I did have my kids vaccinated against chicken pox. Probably because my wife was researching the herpes virus at the time (she's a doc) and insisted.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#45

Post by RobertRoberts »

shepardrtc wrote: post #30
RobertRoberts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unvaccinated are protected by the "wall" of immune people separating them from the sick. Are you saying that _only_ unvaccinated kids get sick? And that they are _only_ protected by "space" made by vaccinated kids? Newborn infants are protected by colostrum, look this one up if you are unaware of it. Other sick people I addressed in my initial point, they seem to be a threat based on your logic, not someone who…

> Are you saying that _only_ unvaccinated kids get sick? And that they are _only_ protected by "space" made by vaccinated kids? You have an incredibly poor understanding of vaccines and viruses. The virus is going to spread regardless of vaccinations. But people who are vaccinated can fight it off much more easily and quickly. That lowers the risk dramatically for the unvaccinated when the vaccinated get rid of quick…

>But people who are vaccinated can fight it off much more easily and quickly.

What about people with compromised immune systems? Does the vaccine make their immune system stronger?

>... the vaccinated get rid of quickly.

Do you have any data to show this? While I know there are a lot of common beliefs about what vaccines do, has there been any studies comparing the speed of recovery between groups of vaccinated/unvaccinated and equally healthy people?

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#46

Post by detaro »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #11
grzm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity > "In a population in which a large number of individuals are immune, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted, which stops or slows the spread of disease. The greater the proportion of individuals in a community who are immune, the smaller the probability that those who are not immune will come into contact with an infectious individual." https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

This is my point. Who cares how many people in the US don't get vaccines if the "vast majority" do?

If a large enough percentage of people thinks that (and returning outbreaks show that this happens locally) suddenly the "vast majority" isn't vast enough anymore.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#47

Post by Tepix »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #26
shepardrtc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chickenpox can be deadly: https://www.cdc.gov/features/preventchickenpox/index.html Please read up on diseases before you try to infect your children with them.

Again, _everyone_ got it when we were kids. You can die of a cold if your body is weak enough.

A few people probably died.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#48

Post by chris_wot »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #29
mcculley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it does not "transfer immunity". It simply makes the environment of other potential carriers much safer for children who are unvaccinated, not yet vaccinated (e.g., for age reasons), or whose vaccination is not completely effective (vaccinations can fail).

[flagged]

Your questions are easily answered via Google. You clearly have an agenda here.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#49

Post by mcculley »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #29
mcculley wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it does not "transfer immunity". It simply makes the environment of other potential carriers much safer for children who are unvaccinated, not yet vaccinated (e.g., for age reasons), or whose vaccination is not completely effective (vaccinations can fail).

[flagged]

> So it only protects based on "spreading" of disease?

Yes. If there are fewer carriers around, the unvaccinated person is at lower risk. A virus depends on carriers to reproduce itself.

> Wouldn't this mean that the only people who are at risk are other unvaccinated kids? (because the vaccinated ones are protected already?)

Yes.

I think maybe the part that is evading you is that this is a game theory problem. One needn't vaccinate every person in order to stop the contagion. There is a tipping point. If enough people opt out of vaccinations, the population crosses the tipping point.

> And if vaccinations can fail, what is the failure rate?

I have no idea. I have read that it is non-zero for various vaccines. Maybe somebody else can help you with this.

Re: Anti-vaccination stronghold in NC hit with worst chickenpox outbreak in 20 years

#50

Post by RobertRoberts »

detaro wrote: post #31
RobertRoberts wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Logically speaking someone with AIDS is a "free-rider" from this logical perspective. How is this person different from a healthy person that chooses not to vaccinate? The logical argument seems to be that "intent" determines if you are a threat or someone to be protected? Again, by the same logical arguments people with AIDS can't go to a foreign country that doesn't vaccinate?

It's surely not a surprising concept that someone who chooses to put other people at risk is viewed differently than someone that can't make that choice?

But does that make one person more or less dangerous to the group regarding infection?

Or are they both equally dangerous disease carriers to a group of people?

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