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American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

nytimes.com

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Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#181

Post by xbmcuser »

smsm42 wrote: post #144

It is fascinating - and unsettling - how many people react to this on range of "ha-ha, stupid medieval idiot, deserved to be murdered" to "typical American!". I know some cultures don't value human life as high as we in the Western culture do, and murdering people for trespassing on some taboo barely comprehensible to outsiders is not very far from our culture either. But what I see is a person trying to do a subject…

The tribe has been isolated from the world for 100s of years and has no immunity to many of the diseases that are common now. The Blockade is for their protection and he was endangering 120-150 people for promoting his religion. It's same as someone trying to use machine gun on a crowd of people I don't think anyone would have any sympathy for that person if he is killed before he can start shooting.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#182

Post by NeedMoreTea »

smsm42 wrote: post #144

It is fascinating - and unsettling - how many people react to this on range of "ha-ha, stupid medieval idiot, deserved to be murdered" to "typical American!". I know some cultures don't value human life as high as we in the Western culture do, and murdering people for trespassing on some taboo barely comprehensible to outsiders is not very far from our culture either. But what I see is a person trying to do a subject…

Why on earth would the nationality or religion of the guy matter? Wouldn't change my view that he was an arrogant idiot choosing not to believe local custom should apply to him. Him being atheist or Buddhist wouldn't change that. He chose to follow the well trod path of believing them not "civilised enough" and wanting to force change. Doesn't really matter what change, does it?

It's a shame he chose to waste his life so needlessly.

"He meant no harm"

Why does whether he meant harm matter? It would not matter to a crocodile had he chosen to wander into a zoo enclosure. It would not matter if he had wandered into a hot war zone. It did not matter to a group of people who have consistently, for a very long time, demonstrated they do not want invasions of their home. The evidence appears he knew full well his intentions were rejected, as he made multiple visits at times when he hoped he would not be seen or caught.

"murdered"

No. He was killed subject to the laws and customs of an isolationist territory he visited repeatedly despite his first visits being rejected. In local custom that could easily be considered more than fair warning. You might not like their laws and customs, just as some might not like SE Asian drug laws and the death penalties that result, or the laws or lack of due process of some other parts of the world. You risk flouting them at your peril regardless of intent, or whether you happen to agree with them.

His nationality or religion is irrelevant.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#183

Post by sergiotapia »

ahi wrote: post #52
projectramo wrote: post #38

The comments here are horrific. Yes, I don't think we should invade the lives of indigenous people any more than you do. And yes, I think this young man was mistaken and misguided. But, he went in with the best of intentions, and he died. You just don't believe what he did. Imagine a techie died while trying to teach rails to the homeless (which, I can only assume, some of you might be more sympathetic towards), woul…

While infectious, Rails doesn't risk killing the homeless.

You haven't seen my AWS bill! Ayy lmao

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#184

Post by inawarminister »

lightbyte wrote: post #39
tfha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have to protect themselves from disease. If the wrong microbe makes contact, it could result in genocide.

Do they actually know that though?

Yes? You don't need science or even literacy to tell your (grand)children that everyone who meets outsiders die messily (cf. All Andamanese except for 80-strong Jorwa(?) and this North Sentilenese tribe)

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#185

Post by verroq »

dang wrote: post #171
verroq wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how a single homeless child is comparable. This is more like justifying North Korea’s methods because the poor country is just trying to survive. The victim should have known they were murderous savages but gave them the benefit of the doubt anyway.

> murderous savages Racial flamewar is not allowed on HN either. Please don't post this kind of thing again.

How is calling them murderous savages racist? It makes no generalisations of their race. Even if one interperts it as a generalisation of their race, how is it prejudice or discrimination when it is an accurate description (given the previous murders commited by them)? Genuinely curious.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#186

Post by [deleted] »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #156
Apocryphon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One man's delusion is another's deliverance. Some may snicker of Darwin Awards and all that, but this man died in a misguided and naive attempt to do good, not to exploit or harm anyone. I'm sure his family and friends feel terribly bad about this tragedy.

I don't think he deserved to die. He sounds like he was a decent and loving person, and I'm sure he will be missed; I do not celebrate his death. But when you do the equivalent of sticking your hand in a box marked "DANGER LETHAL VOLTAGE", I do think you bear some culpability for your own death. Practically the only thing we know about the Sentinelese is that they kill anyone who comes near them, no exceptions. He tr…

[deleted]

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#187

Post by wink »

goalieca wrote: post #180
spdionis wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: imagine it was a buddhist monk. I am sure the reaction here in the comments would be at least slightly different.

Nope. Idiot breaking national law and against all warnings tries to indoctrinate with religion is both “self-righteous” and unethical. Doesn’t matter which religion.

Oh I think it does help to not have your faith associated with holy crusades, if only a little.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#188

Post by dankohn1 »

Jtsummers wrote: post #113
verroq wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe in moral relativism. They don’t get a pass for not knowing better. Just as their victims didn’t get a pass for not knowing better.

> I don’t believe in moral relativism. Good for you? The homeless, penniless child should never steal the loaf of bread when all other, apparent, options are exhausted. > They don’t get a pass for not knowing better. They get a pass because it was already decided a long time ago that they were too dangerous for outsiders to be allowed near. They're contained, and by the survey numbers their population is dwindling. I…

> The homeless, penniless child should never steal the loaf of bread when all other, apparent, options are exhausted.

'The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.' - Anatole France

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#189

Post by lucozade »

smsm42 wrote: post #144

It is fascinating - and unsettling - how many people react to this on range of "ha-ha, stupid medieval idiot, deserved to be murdered" to "typical American!". I know some cultures don't value human life as high as we in the Western culture do, and murdering people for trespassing on some taboo barely comprehensible to outsiders is not very far from our culture either. But what I see is a person trying to do a subject…

I completely agree that this is tragic and not in any way funny.

I also agree that his being American is irrelevant: we have arrogant, selfish fools in many countries.

But I can't agree that his being Christian is irrelevant. His stated reason for being there was on a conversion mission. It was precisely his proselytising that gave him the arrogance to risk the lives of everyone on the island.

And it was very likely his religion that led to his death. He had been shot at on a previous visit. He wrote to his parents saying that he may not return. It strikes me as highly likely that he thought that his death would be a martyr's death.

So no, I don't find it funny. Any more than if someone climbed into a lion's enclosure and was mauled to death. Because, in many ways, that's very similar to what he did. An utterly stupid waste.

Re: American Is Killed by Bow and Arrow on Remote Indian Island

#190

Post by dang »

verroq wrote: post #185
dang wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> murderous savages Racial flamewar is not allowed on HN either. Please don't post this kind of thing again.

How is calling them murderous savages racist? It makes no generalisations of their race. Even if one interperts it as a generalisation of their race, how is it prejudice or discrimination when it is an accurate description (given the previous murders commited by them)? Genuinely curious.

It's an obvious trope of racist discourse. Maybe the most obvious of all time. Therefore it's flamebait, in addition to whatever else it is, and the fire department needs to turn a hose on it.
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