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The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

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Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can appreciate that but, to be honest, that's why I'm asking someone who says he or she is currently homeless. I want to know if that position is theoretically true (that is, people who are housed think it is true) or if it really does have bearing on the day-to-day life of someone who is homeless. Put another way, I want to know what someone who's actually going through this would say because the question is sarca…

I spent nearly six years homeless. Long before that, I had a class on Homelessness and Public Policy through SFSU when I was living in Fairfield. Most of my homelessness was spent in California and I actually moved to Washington to get back into housing. I blog about homelessness and still talk with homeless people online and in person. 1. If you are destitute, traveling is a huge barrier to moving elsewhere. There a…

Thanks for this comment. It's not too usual to see a perspective this clear and well thought out.

Some other points:

"Moving" without a car is not so simple. You can hitchhike, with the success of that depending on how you're able to present yourself and the culture of the local area. You can walk, but only so long as the nearest places are spaced in small distances, and if not you would need overnight gear. The weather is also a major factor here.

Knowing where to go is also another factor. Even for someone with a phone and internet it can be a challenge. First there's so many places. But how would you know that where you're going is any better than the place you're at? It represents a gamble that could result in you depleting already limited resources without any gain. Even if your current area is expensive at least you already know where the community food pantries are located, where and from who to get free/inexpensive clothing, good places to stealth camp... Moving to a completely new area puts you in a place of zero knowledge in exchange for only the possibility of finding work.

There is a hump you have to crest to acquire long-term housing. You need (depending on where you live) at least several hundred dollars to put in a security deposit. You need several hundred more to cover the next few months of rent. You need a job. You need to feel secure that you'll still have that job in a few months or at least have a replacement ready. You probably need a vehicle. You need for it to be dependable. You need to be presentable before being able to acquire that job. You might need references for either the job or apartment. You might need some sort of rental history.

Not to mention if you've been living on the edge for years it might have changed you. For some people it puts on them a character of supreme humbleness, for others it makes them very outwardly resentful against those who apparently have so much. Sometimes those changes are too visible to hide and in a way frames you to people living in normal and casual society as "other."

Getting over that hump when you have next to nothing is difficult.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#322
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's well developed. It's set up to get people on their feet temporarily. That covers many cases. It's less helpful for cases where chronic issues require ongoing help. Source: former Mormon, used to cut the welfare checks under congregational leadership, saw the inside baseball, politics, sausage-making, etc.

>former Mormon *former Latter-day Saint >used to cut the welfare checks under congregational leadership You mean, send people to the storehouse as part of the Bishopric? It's pretty rare for people to be given money. Food from the storehouses yes, work through Church-owned companies and help via job placement services yes. At least around here, maybe it's different in SLC.

I was never in SLC. I was in the South and the Midwest.

With regards to referring to the Mormon church as Mormon: I will use the common reference standard as it will likely be returned to in a few years. The whole recent re-labeling is useful internally but not my business externally.[0] Not my rodeo, not my clowns.

[0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/08/17/us/m...

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#323
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your idea that these laborers are victims of "homeless crack addicts manipulatively employing the victim narrative" is such an extreme miscalculation that I wonder if you even looking at the data honestly. The amount of money that actually goes to homeless people is extremely low, and most of those meager funds are used to give them food and temporary shelter so they don't literally die outside. And even then, the am…

>>Your idea that these laborers are victims of "homeless crack addicts manipulatively employing the victim narrative" is such an extreme miscalculation that I wonder if you even looking at the data honestly. I didn't say the homeless crack addicts are manipulatively employing the victim narrative. It's the taxpayer funded social support network around them that does that. >>The amount of money that actually goes to h…

What would you suggest? Homelessness is not a punishment society forces onto people. It's an issue for all of society and affects everyone. Pointing fingers and shunning and saying that these people are worthless and deserve everything that get, even if true, isn't a solution to the issue. It seems that if it were possible you would prefer to just eradicate every homeless person out there. Of course that's not possible, so realistic solutions have to be tried.

In a sense the vast majority of us are a drain on society at small and large. The people doing the work of growing food, maintaining and building infrastructure, providing medical care, pursuing scientific advancement are a small number. My sense is that most people living in developed countries are doing so on the backs of others. It's easy to point at homeless and say they need to "earn their way," but did we really "earn" that car or earn that house. Did you "earn" your vaccinations. In the sense that you purchased it, did you earn it. How much did sitting in an office or stacking bricks or breaking concrete go towards actually earning the invention of that piston engine or the discovery of the measles vaccine? How much does the effort of sitting in a cubicle translate to the effort of constructing a house or growing a garden.

Very little anyone possesses is individually earned. We're all profitting from centuries of technology and advancement we had no part in. The humane thing to do is share what we did not reap with people less advantaged.

So as long as there are societies there will always be people living on the fringes of those societies. There will always be elderly, babies, children, criminals, mentally ill, physically handicapped, low income earners, etc. Nonetheless those people are also apart of society. Supporting people on the fringe is an act society does to support itself.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#324
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So spake Adam Smith. Sorry but the Invisible Hand is a fairy tale.

You know who disagrees with you on that? Karl Marx.

Marx believed that capitalism tends to self-destruct which is diametrically opposite to Adam Smith's belief in capitalism's self-correcting Invisible Hand. I don't get where you're coming from.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We find that landlords actively respond to the imposition of rent control by converting their properties to condos and TICs or by redeveloping the building in such as a way as to exempt it from the regulations. In sum, we find that impacted landlords reduced the supply the available rental housing by 15%. Consistent with this evidence, we find that there was a 20% decline in the number of renters living in impacted…

Doesn't it seem to you that the problem is those regulations that can allow the exemptions rather than rent control? I mean, if it wasn't possible to exempt a building from the regulations, there wouldn't be an issue with rent control.

When you don't allow exemptions from rent control, you get something like the Bronx in the 1970s, where landlords set fire to their own buildings to collect insurance money rather than rent them out. [1] There's always an exemption - if you don't provide a legal one, people will find an undetectable illegal one.

[1] https://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100610/BLOGS01/30610...

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can appreciate that but, to be honest, that's why I'm asking someone who says he or she is currently homeless. I want to know if that position is theoretically true (that is, people who are housed think it is true) or if it really does have bearing on the day-to-day life of someone who is homeless. Put another way, I want to know what someone who's actually going through this would say because the question is sarca…

I spent nearly six years homeless. Long before that, I had a class on Homelessness and Public Policy through SFSU when I was living in Fairfield. Most of my homelessness was spent in California and I actually moved to Washington to get back into housing. I blog about homelessness and still talk with homeless people online and in person. 1. If you are destitute, traveling is a huge barrier to moving elsewhere. There a…

To add to the list, you're not going to move north in the winter. Maybe go back to the town you are from in the summer.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#327
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area. This is just provably false. Utah solved it's homelessness problem by just giving people homes. And it was pretty effective.

> This is just provably false Utah is not an example that proves anything. It's a fairly unusual area when talking about this problem. Utah's entire population is less than Los Angeles. The claim that 91% of Utah's homeless population was abated is somewhat suspicious, given the remaining 14k would mean they had a previous 155k+ - which outstrips the homeless count of most major cities (including Los Angeles). This i…

Excluding CA, only texas, Florida, and NY have bigger populations than the LA metro area.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#328
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they aren't political by definition. They exist at a lower layer and are apolitical by default. They can be used or corrupted by politics - and are.

But people do science. We bring our bias, limited vision, and our politics and opinions.

Which is why there is the scientific method. Good science is reproducible and provable regardless of what your opinion is.

Facts are facts regardless.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people living on a few dollars a day... You really think we can't provide a cot in the equivalent of a walk in closet with communal bathrooms, and simple meals like beans and rice with a few vegetables for $10k/year?

Only if you ship them to a very low cost area, and then you immediately run into political issues as I mentioned, like shipping away your poor and gentrifying the area for rich people. Beans and rice? That's a terrible, unhealthy meal! You need to give them a balanced diet! How could you kill these poor people? Communal bathrooms? That's for criminals and it spreads disease! A walk in closet? These are human beings w…

There will always be people like that, but your explanation just comes off to me as excuses to do nothing and continue the status quo.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#330
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is just provably false Utah is not an example that proves anything. It's a fairly unusual area when talking about this problem. Utah's entire population is less than Los Angeles. The claim that 91% of Utah's homeless population was abated is somewhat suspicious, given the remaining 14k would mean they had a previous 155k+ - which outstrips the homeless count of most major cities (including Los Angeles). This i…

Does it make sense that they get the same number of senate seats as California?

At the time that was the whole point -- that states like Rhode Island and Connecticut wouldn't be outvoted by states like Virginia, New York, and Pennsylvania.
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