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Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

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171–180 of 256 posts

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#172

I'm intrigued by his mention of Stanislaw Lem and the Strugatsky brothers. I have not heard of these scifi authors. Can anyone recommend a story by them, preferably short and online?

Ha. Stanislaw Lem is one of my favourites. And The Cyberiad is my favourite of his, followed maybe by Tales of Pirx the Pilot and The futurological congress.

The first two are collections of short stories. You can find something from the Cyberiad online if you look for the pdf- Trurl's electronic bard is sort of spot on in this thread.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a brighter note, wouldn't that in effect destroy jobs that have little human-added value? Leaving us with creative jobs and UBI?

I guess at the pleasant end of the spectrum we end up with something like the Culture - where meat-based citizens are treated with indulgent care by the god-like AIs leaving us to do the only thing we'd be uniquely good at: having fun. At the other end of spectrum we are either deemed irrelevant, a nuisance or abused for eternity in the simulation spaces of evil AIs (see "A Colder War" by Stross or indeed works by Ba…

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Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#174

A little bit in the same vein (arguing against the singularity): "The impossibility of intelligence explosion" https://medium.com/@francois.chollet/the-impossibility-of-in...

In that article, the author claims that a human brain cannot create something more intelligent than itself, and argues by saying that over several billion years of evolution, no human brain has ever done so, thus it must not be possible.

That argument is totally nonsense. A hundred years ago, you could argue that humans cannot invent an internet, because over billions of years (minus one hundred), it's never happened.

There's a more rigorous way to argue for the claim in question, which debuted in my doctoral dissertation. Or, not quite the exact claim in question, but rather the following claim: that an idealized mechanical knowing agent cannot create a more intelligent idealized mechanical knowing agent than itself (at least, not one which it can actually trust). The idea behind the proof is quite simple, but requires familiarity with computable ordinal numbers. If knowing agent X creates knowing agent Y, then presumably X knows Y's sourcecode. Thus, X can infer a sourcecode for the list of all naturals n such that Y knows "n is the code of a computable ordinal". If X actually trusts Y, then X knows that whenever Y knows "n is the code of a computable ordinal", then n really is the code of a computable ordinal. Combining these, X can infer the ordinality of the ordering obtained by concatenating together all the ordinals which Y knows are ordinals. Thus, X knows a larger computable ordinal than all the computable ordinals Y knows. Which, depending on your definition of intelligence, arguably suggests X is more intelligent than Y.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#175
post #79

What really terrified me wasn't skynet or Hal, but what Charles Stross describes in his novel Accelerando. Basically, machine controlled businesses (“slyly self-aware financial instruments”) evolving to the point where their aptitude at understanding and manipulating economics eclipses anything a human can compete with. It terrified me because there is efficiency incentive for the buying/selling of goods and services…

The thing about trading bots and purchasing systems is that they're generally self-contained and regulated by a very human legal and physical world system that determines which algorithms are allowed to run on the platform, which contracts and title deeds are void and which commodities don't actually get physically delivered. Even Stross' old-school cyberpunk singularity story throws in a plot point where a decision is made by an imam! If private equity firms want to force businesses to act in a certain way they're much better off sending legal threats to management than coding a certain set of rules into a purchasing system which is readily bypassed with a quick phone call to the bank, unless those firms think the algorithm is doing a terrific job with the purchases in which case maybe it's not so malevolent after all - computers making real time purchases in line with the parameters management think benefit the firm are useful. Even toy systems like the DAO with no purpose except to prove that "corporation as code" could be a real thing saw the ecosystem rapidly monkey patched when people started to dislike the code's outcomes. They're also a reminder that people have very strong incentives not to work towards universal "corporation as code"

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#176
I would build on "The Argument From Wooly Definitions" that the typical premise for superintelligence explosion begins from an AI with (1) "human level" intelligence (2) Machine level attributes like hyperfast computation and a large working memory

I would argue that a "human level" intelligence that can think thousands or millions of times faster than a human with a vastly larger working memory (and, sometimes it is argued, can be trivially scaled to work faster / more efficiently given more hardware) is in fact already a super-intelligence.

If you want to argue for intelligence explosion given a "human level" intelligence, I say start with an AI black box wherein if you give a basic algebra problem to an ordinary human at the same time as you give it to the black box, they will think for about 30 seconds and then give an answer that is half likely to be wrong.

If you want to argue from a "human level" intelligence, you need to acknowledge that throwing more hardware doesn't inherently make it smarter. You can throw five ordinary humans in a room and give them a simple algebra problem, it doesn't mean they will solve it five times faster. Likely they will quickly decide amongst themselves who is best and math, and that one person will then give their answer to the algebra problem, which should be slightly more likely to be the correct answer (and possibly a slightly slower response) than if you just tried with one ordinary human.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#177
post #73

The cat argument is completely off base IMO. The "AI" has an almost perfect motivating lever for humans: economics. A super-intelligent AI that wanted to manipulate humans could do a lot with the stock market to feed money to its long term interests. What long term interests might those be? More servers? More storage? More hardware? More software? More AI research? Better, more programmable chips? Eyes everywhere? Ro…

By the way, we specifically designed a mechanism explicitly for mass persuasion: online advertisting. We've been working diligently to integrate it into everyone's daily experience. You're welcome, hidden AI overlord!

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#178

> If Einstein tried to get a cat in a carrier, and the cat didn't want to go, you know what would happen to Einstein. > > He would have to resort to a brute-force solution that has nothing to do with intelligence, and in that matchup the cat could do pretty well for itself. Wouldn't it be better to simply motivate the cat to get in the carrier with a can of tuna fish? This is a very simple form of modeling the cat's…

From my understanding:

The Einstein cat example is about trying to coerce a non-compliant entity that you cannot communicate with into complying. The Stephen Hawking cat example was about trying to model the behaviour of the non-compliant entity in order to persuade it to comply. The use of a cat as the agent in both cases alludes to the behaviour that people dealing with cats frequently experience.

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#179
Under "The Argument From Complex Motivations", I encourage you to read the linked paper on the orthogonality thesis

https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/Orthogonality_An...

and then compare it to the OP discussion. The OP doesn't address any of the arguments in the paper. His response is just "nah".

Re: Superintelligence: The Idea That Eats Smart People (2016)

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First we must demonstrate that the alleged deity is indeed present before we worry about understanding it.

In context of this discussion, that would be future Superintelligence.

Fair point. Although, there are some key differences. We have a trend of machines with increasingly intelligent capabilities. So we must ask: Is it reasonable to extrapolate? How far? What are the risks? Difficult questions.

I'm personally not terribly worried, as I think we have a ways to go before creating human-like general intelligence, let alone super intelligence. It is also not clear at all to me that an exponential increase in intelligence is likely or feasible after some threshold. Still, treading carefully seems prudent. There are some serious risks, and even if the likelihood appears low, there are a lot of unknowns.

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