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The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

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Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#201

Post by booleandilemma »

anigbrowl wrote: post #195
booleandilemma wrote: post #161

I think part of the problem is that there is a certain percentage of homeless people that are just completely irredeemable. Anyone that’s spent some time riding on the NYC subway can attest to this. No matter how much money you throw at them, they will keep begging or acting crazy. Short of locking them up, what do you do with those people?

Irredeemable? Have they committed some awful moral transgression? Certainly some people are chronically incapable of looking after themselves, but please avoid such prejudicial language.

I’m talking about the people who will never be functioning members of society, no matter how much support we give them (monetary or otherwise).

If you don’t understand what I mean you haven’t met enough homeless people.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#202

Post by CryptoPunk »

vikeri wrote: post #200
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

In comparison to SF/LA/NY etc. we have very few homeless people in Scandinavia. If I were to speculate then I think our extensive social security systems (free healthcare & education etc.) is the reason why. But then we all pay 30-55 % tax on our income to fund that social security.

People of Scandinavian descent in the US have much lower levels of homelessness as well, so I think it's far more likely a socio-cultural cause, rather than political.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#203

Post by reaperducer »

techsupporter wrote: post #171
harlanji wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been in SF for about 7 years and became homeless in June. The #1 thing that helps me is cash in my pocket, from day labor (odd jobs) and boosters from family and friends who know I’m not a drug addict/alcoholic. Obviously the latter can’t be offered by a gov because it would be abused, but work for cash saved my life. IME cash in hand is the biggest help. #2 by far is bathroom access... followed by water and foo…

I have a truly genuine question and I swear on my prized and treasured EdgeRouter that I have no ulterior motive except for having a real answer to give to people whenever they also ask this question (often, in my opinion, in bad faith). So, with that, here goes: Why do you not leave San Francisco for some place cheaper or with more available housing? If it is simply due to lack of funds, would you relocate if money…

Why do you not leave San Francisco for some place cheaper or with more available housing? If it is simply due to lack of funds, would you relocate if money was offered to you for that purpose?

Relocating to a place where you don't have a job makes you even more homeless.

Remember that a significant percentage of the homeless are also employed. Many full time. Some as developers.

It's easy to relocate to an unfamiliar place with no family or safety net if you have a job and savings. But if you're just going in the hopes that maybe there's a job, and maybe you'll find a place to live in that requires no deposit, and maybe there's a market for your skills in that place, you're just going to end up on the streets again.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#204

Post by CryptoPunk »

spookthesunset wrote: post #95
crooked-v wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suddenly we get very "every person for themselves" the second homelessness has a price tag. A confounding factor involved here is that many government strategies for dealing with the homeless are endless money pits without noticeable results. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable with their tax dollars going to that purpose if they didn't feel like nothing was actually happening from it.

> endless money pits The reason they are money pits is because they aren't something that will be solved by a city or even a state. Any attempt to solve the problem locally in a "humane" way has a high risk of just attracting more folks in the same circumstance to the area. The most effective way for a city or state to "solve" the local homeless problem is to simply pay for one-way bus tickets to somewhere else. But…

It's an endless money pit because if you subsidize something, you get more of it. The massive increase in subsidies for low-income single parents has resulted in a massive increase in children born into single parent families over the last 50 years.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#205

Post by DoreenMichele »

reaperducer wrote: post #199
DoreenMichele wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I have read, Utah's ability to pull that off is tied to the strong influence of the Mormon church there and its institutions. So it's probably not readily replicable in other US states.

The Mormon Church played a big role in it because that organization is involved in its community. But it's not like it only helped Mormons. Everyone was helped, regardless of religion or lack thereof. Why can't the Utah success be replicated elsewhere? There are no religion-specific aspects to the Utah plan. Are you implying that atheists are incapable of compassion, generosity, or the need to help their fellow man?

I didn't say it only helped Mormons.

From what I gather, the Mormon church has a very complex and well developed infrastructure for deciding who gets help, what kind of help they get, etc. This seems unlikely to be readily and easily replicable without the Mormon church. It has nothing to do with whether or not one believes in god. It has to do with social infrastructure.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#206

Post by cco »

thoughtexplorer wrote: post #155
noobermin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unfortunately, a lot of the solutions are expensive and frankly politically toxic. At the end of the day, everything is political. Instead of shying away from it engage with it because it is the only way you'll change society.

> At the end of the day, everything is political. It only is if you view everything through a political lens. Science and psychology, for example, are not political. Plus you can affect change without the political system. Starting with improving oneself. Then family members. Then local community. If enough people did that, that would be a societal change and maybe we wouldn't have such a crisis in the first place.

>Science and psychology, for example, are not political.

Could you clarify? Do you mean to say that these fields of study don't yield results that have political implications? Or that these fields are impervious to political influence because...well I don't know, they aren't performed by humans?

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#207

Post by techsupporter »

reaperducer wrote: post #203
techsupporter wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a truly genuine question and I swear on my prized and treasured EdgeRouter that I have no ulterior motive except for having a real answer to give to people whenever they also ask this question (often, in my opinion, in bad faith). So, with that, here goes: Why do you not leave San Francisco for some place cheaper or with more available housing? If it is simply due to lack of funds, would you relocate if money…

Why do you not leave San Francisco for some place cheaper or with more available housing? If it is simply due to lack of funds, would you relocate if money was offered to you for that purpose? Relocating to a place where you don't have a job makes you even more homeless. Remember that a significant percentage of the homeless are also employed. Many full time. Some as developers. It's easy to relocate to an unfamiliar…

I can appreciate that but, to be honest, that's why I'm asking someone who says he or she is currently homeless. I want to know if that position is theoretically true (that is, people who are housed think it is true) or if it really does have bearing on the day-to-day life of someone who is homeless.

Put another way, I want to know what someone who's actually going through this would say because the question is sarcastically asked so often but I rarely read replies from people who are actually in this situation.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#208

Post by tropo »

vikeri wrote: post #200
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

In comparison to SF/LA/NY etc. we have very few homeless people in Scandinavia. If I were to speculate then I think our extensive social security systems (free healthcare & education etc.) is the reason why. But then we all pay 30-55 % tax on our income to fund that social security.

Another reason is the very strong motivation provided by your winter. Being homeless results in death, which explains why you have very few homeless people in Scandinavia.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#209

Post by spookthesunset »

cutler wrote: post #164
Alex63 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear how homelessness can be meaningfully addressed in a humane way by the federal government (especially if it is constitutional).

Simple. Put a ceiling on rents. Allow no-one to own more than one home and insist they live in the one they own. In the UK we have a "bedroom tax" but it is aimed at the poor, not the rich as it should be. Make it illegal to discriminate against anyone based on their income source or the state of their health. Build housing exclusively for low-income occupants instead of throwing everything onto the insidious propert…

> Put a ceiling on rents

Sorry, but this is the worst possible solution. Source: basic economics.

Rent control is one of the most dangerous "solutions" to high housing costs people ever toss out. It would destroy the housing market and make it vastly more expensive than it is now.

Re: The Homeless Crisis Is Getting Worse in America’s Richest Cities

#210

Post by dan_quixote »

crooked-v wrote: post #71
sharkweek wrote: post #9

Long-time Seattle resident here who volunteered for several years in the homeless community. Homelessness has always been a thing in Seattle, but has definitely become a much larger issue in the past five years. I'll spare my thoughts on any number of reasons as to why we got here as a city, but will say I think we are doing a terrible disservice to actually finding a solution by lumping "anyone who doesn't have a ho…

> suddenly we get very "every person for themselves" the second homelessness has a price tag. A confounding factor involved here is that many government strategies for dealing with the homeless are endless money pits without noticeable results. I think a lot of people would be more comfortable with their tax dollars going to that purpose if they didn't feel like nothing was actually happening from it.

> endless money pits without noticeable results

Homelessness budgets are money pits because our first line of defense is so often the ER where the patients can cost tens of thousands of dollars per day. The patients with serious mental health or substance abuse problems also have nowhere to go after the ER...so they get stuck there for many extra days/weeks because no one will take them. Do the math and each hospital visit can easily extend past $1 million and typically are at least in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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