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Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

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Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#171

Post by GeneralMayhem »

Arbalest wrote: post #73
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure you'll get downvoted to kingdom come, but I actually checked out the included links - interesting stuff Oh, indeed I shall. Still, we're sold a bundle of goods by the capitalists that "unions are evil" and et cetera, yet when when it is advantageous to the very capitalists, they form unions of their own to hold down the very workers' wages. Now, some unions do indeed suck. They were ineffective and only la…

I think for organisations such a thing is called a cartel. Cartels are usually illegal, but only ever get noticed on the sale side, and some are downright legalised (eg OPEC).

I don't think calling OPEC "legal" is particularly meaningful, considering the entities participating in the cartel are nation-states.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#172

Post by thepp1983 »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #17
rayvy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'll get downvoted to kingdom come, but I actually checked out the included links - interesting stuff

> I'm sure you'll get downvoted to kingdom come, but I actually checked out the included links - interesting stuff Oh, indeed I shall. Still, we're sold a bundle of goods by the capitalists that "unions are evil" and et cetera, yet when when it is advantageous to the very capitalists, they form unions of their own to hold down the very workers' wages. Now, some unions do indeed suck. They were ineffective and only la…

Also as I previously replied to your original statement capitalism != corporatism.

The large tech companies should have been broken up about 5 years ago.

The only reason that any of us have job is because capitalists in the 70s and 80s popularised computers so they were small enough and low enough in price for anyone to own. It really pains me that most are completely ignorant of anything that happened in computing before the mid-90s.

Regulation and Unions help corporations because it makes it raises the bar of difficultly for startups to enter any market.

As for working environment. I work from home and I freelance. I run a high end modern workstation with dual 4k screens, a nice sound system for music and my choice of caffeinated beverages. If you don't want to be a slave to the man, work for yourself.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#173

Post by dragonwriter »

thepp1983 wrote: post #168
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #2

Surprised? I'm not. Capitalists are well known to conspire together and create capitalist unions to block workers of all stripes. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/technology/silicon-valley... Google, Apple, Intel and Adobe in this one.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... Adobe, Apple Inc., Google, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, Lucasfilm and eBay here. https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/ftc-brin…

Capitalism != Corporatism. We have a problem with corporatism not capitalism. Please learn the difference.

> Capitalism != Corporatism.

True.

> We have a problem with corporatism not capitalism.

In the U.S., we have a problem with something much closer to capitalism. (People occasionally indicate that it is a problem with “crony capitalism”, but cronyism has always been a feature or capitalism, it is not an aberration or alien feature.)

In China (and even maybe Mexico, though much moreso during the PRI one-party era) there is a problem with corporatism, which is not th same thing as (even crony) capitalism.

Both are problems of global impact, to be sure.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#174

Post by thepp1983 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #173
thepp1983 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism != Corporatism. We have a problem with corporatism not capitalism. Please learn the difference.

> Capitalism != Corporatism. True. > We have a problem with corporatism not capitalism. In the U.S., we have a problem with something much closer to capitalism. (People occasionally indicate that it is a problem with “crony capitalism”, but cronyism has always been a feature or capitalism, it is not an aberration or alien feature.) In China (and even maybe Mexico, though much moreso during the PRI one-party era) ther…

> Crony capitalism is an economy in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk, but rather as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class.

No crony capitalism is not a feature of capitalism. Crony capitalism is a feature of corporatism. You clearly don't understand the terms you are using.

China is a totalitarian state that as long as those businesses keep in line and bring enough benefit to the state (which is run by wealthy elites). Businesses are allowed to exist if they don't challenge this status quo. In China an individual has no property rights unlike most of the Anglo-sphere. This is because property rights are an important pre-requisite to many of the other rights we enjoy in the western world.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#175

Post by IloveHN84 »

yjhoney wrote: post #34

I started a nonprofit 2 years ago (garagescript.org) that hires low income people in San Jose and their full time job is to learn how to code and teach new students. Our nonprofit started off with 20 students, most were making about 25k/year and had no coding experience. I paid each of them 2k / month to quit their jobs and focus on coding full time. From the original 20 students, 6 are left. The other 14 are all ful…

And how did you get back the original investment of 2k$/month?

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#176

Post by humanrebar »

jldugger wrote: post #147
humanrebar wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...giving a path to legal immigration for illegal immigrants would help things. I would rather consider paying anyone below minimum wage a form of wage theft and prosecutable as a criminal offense. Dunno why embezzlement is a felony but breaking the law to underpay people is just grounds for a lawsuit.

It's difficult to prosecute considering the employee risks deportation if they report.

Still seems more likely than an undocumented person filing a lawsuit.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#177

Post by slededit »

pm90 wrote: post #155
dublidu wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we could aloe property assessments to increase with a local cost of living index, we would at least have enough property tax revenue to pay teachers.

I think we should be careful with this. Currently, because of the frozen property tax law, many houses worth millions pay very little in property taxes; if they did have to pay taxes on the millions of dollars their property is worth, they would have had to sell their houses ages ago. This would have likely created a downward pressure on the prices; making it unlikely that the home prices would reach the levels they…

Given the scale the only sane way to unwind it is to grandfather all sales before a certain date. Otherwise you’ll have masses of people forced out of their properties and chaos.

Re: Silicon Valley wages have dropped for non-tech jobs

#179

Post by int_19h »

sjg007 wrote: post #159
taneq wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, San Francisco is currently experiencing a teacher shortage of several years [1], so that vice versa I mentioned above is simply not true. SF only has a shortage of teachers at the currently offered pay levels . If tech jobs paid the same as teaching, there'd be a "shortage" of tech workers too.

Experienced teachers in some districts make 6 figures in the Bay Area.

6 figures is pretty much the baseline for software engineers in Bay Area, is it not?
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