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China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

nytimes.com

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Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#41

Post by whooshee »

quangio wrote: post #28

I think China "scaled" really fast and they're too big to fail. But as an asian foreigner non-ml tech guy, I don't plan to stay here. Things look good on paper, but the working condition, environtment is not the best in the world and i don't think it is ideal place to start everything from scratch as there are big class gap and the need of guanxi.

Although China is a vibrant place it is still a developing country. not on par with stable developed countries. Speaking of guanxi, many new rich had gotten almost none but their tech talent.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#42

Post by D_Alex »

joefranklinsrs wrote: post #9

Very optimistic piece about the Chinese economy from a Chinese American who now resides in China. The author works for Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, whose company Amazon greatly benefits from China. There is no doubt this is a piece that is trying to rally around a very unlikely scenario where the US administration will give into Chinese belligerence and back off on trade tariffs at the end of Novemb…

> export falling 30% year-over-year in Guangdong

Export surplus is falling... that's a very different animal.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#43

Post by archibaldJ »

whooshee wrote: post #38
archibaldJ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Just googling about Alibaba in Chinese and one would find articles about the IP theft culture within the organisation. There are tons of stories circulating in Chinese start-up communities about how project managers from Alibaba, Tencent, etc, pretended to be interested in funding (or collaborating with) a start-up before stealing ideas/designs/code/algorithms from them. e.g. https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/297837…

That strategy is not uncommon for big companies, think about Facebook, Microsoft.

I guess at least they don't pretend to be interested in funding or collaborating with another company before stealing, say, design/code/algorithms from them. Or are there any anecdotes about these big conglomerates doing disgraceful things like that as well?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#44

Post by simion314 »

_iyig wrote: post #24
rongenre wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They stole the idea from the US: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/

In the 18th and 19th centuries, infringement of British patents was stated U.S. policy. In contrast, China keeps saying one thing and doing another. For example: they deny any involvement in industrial espionage, yet keep doing it. They are a member of the WTO, yet they consistently flout its rules. Then they have the chutzpah to complain about U.S. tariffs. If you ask me, it's the malicious and persistent dishonesty…

Do not do business with them, it is not like other countries politicians and politics are good examples to follow.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#45

Post by liftbigweights »

diminish wrote: post #22

"The West was sure the Chinese approach would not work. It just had to wait. It’s still waiting." Waiting, crossing fingers, thinking wishfully, hoping, and acting upon it. China is doing something right.. or maybe West is indeed helping the Chinese success?

"The west was sure the chinese approach would not work"?

Is that why the west invested trillions of dollars in china over the past 4 decades? I expect very little from the nytimes, but this is a new low for them.

Did the nytimes assume Gordon Chang is "the west" and then run with that false premise?

If anything, we have gambled our future and put all our eggs in one basket - china. We looked to china to be the manufacturer of the world. Then during the financial crisis, we looked to china to increase debt to save the world economy from collapse. Now we are looking to china to be the consumer of the world to boost the world economy.

The west helped create modern china. It was our money, resources, expertise, technology and markets that helped create modern china. Why would we invest trillions in a country expecting it to fail?

From hollywood to the NBA to silicon valley to wall street to agriculture, "the west" is looking to china to be the source of growth for decades to come. Or maybe I'm missing something?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#46

Post by _iyig »

simion314 wrote: post #44
_iyig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, infringement of British patents was stated U.S. policy. In contrast, China keeps saying one thing and doing another. For example: they deny any involvement in industrial espionage, yet keep doing it. They are a member of the WTO, yet they consistently flout its rules. Then they have the chutzpah to complain about U.S. tariffs. If you ask me, it's the malicious and persistent dishonesty…

Do not do business with them, it is not like other countries politicians and politics are good examples to follow.

>Do not do business with them

This tactic works when it comes to mercantilist trade policy (see also: new U.S. tariffs, and recent EU complaint against China in the WTO). Less effective when it comes to stemming IP theft.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#47

Post by Fricken »

jerkstate wrote: post #25
Fricken wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is bad. Free exchange of information is good. Unless we're talking about IP, then suddenly the opposite is true. Really, when you get under all the BS from people who've been propagandized against China, they believe America should win and China should lose. Of course China isn't going to agree to this, and they're big enough that they don't have to. Might makes right, until China becomes the mightiest glo…

> Censorship is bad. Free exchange of information is good. Unless we're talking about IP, then suddenly the opposite is true. Alright, let's torture your false equivalence a little more: you shouldn't have privacy because that's prevention of the free exchange of information.

How is it false equivalency? This has nothing to do with the concept of sanctuary.

Even Adam Smith regarded IP laws to be an 'Unessecary Evil'. Even in SV, an engineer works for one company, learns the tricks of the trade, and then takes that knowledge to another. This is business as usual, and it's a critical ingredient to Silicon Valley's success, and it's the secret to the success of many city states and industrial hubs all throughout history.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#48

Post by hourislate »

neya wrote: post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

According to Mark Goodman "Future Crimes", it amounts to over 1 trillion USD over the last 10 years.

Micron being the latest victim.

https://www.wired.com/story/us-accuses-chinese-stealing-micr...

It is interesting that an agrarian society can transform and innovate itself in approx 10-15 years to become the world leader in Technology, etc. They also never seem to run out of funds to drive anything they do?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#49

Post by whooshee »

rongenre wrote: post #11
neya wrote: post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

They stole the idea from the US: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/

And the British

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/arti...

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#50

Post by liftbigweights »

faitswulff wrote: post #4
neya wrote: post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

> To see all this being stolen by someone who just walked in, pretending to make a deal, is so painful. I mean, if you want to talk about pain, a lot of Chinese people see Japan primarily as the country responsible for the Rape of Nanking [0], among other atrocities. It doesn't make IP theft justified, but it probably puts it into context for why the Chinese government, people, or companies would have very little com…

But most of the atrocities in china in the 20th century were committed by the chinese against other chinese? And most of the atrocities in the 19th century were by european imperialists. Also, everyone committed atrocities against everyone else. Using your logic, we should all be stealing from each other since it is all justified because of historical wrongs. Sure you can't be arguing that?
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