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China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

nytimes.com

21–30 of 110 posts

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To see all this being stolen by someone who just walked in, pretending to make a deal, is so painful. I mean, if you want to talk about pain, a lot of Chinese people see Japan primarily as the country responsible for the Rape of Nanking [0], among other atrocities. It doesn't make IP theft justified, but it probably puts it into context for why the Chinese government, people, or companies would have very little com…

No, it doesn't. China steals everything worth stealing from anyone that has it.

Seems some core AI tech is also stolen: ResNet. It should have been invented by non-Chinese.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#22
"The West was sure the Chinese approach would not work. It just had to wait. It’s still waiting."

Waiting, crossing fingers, thinking wishfully, hoping, and acting upon it. China is doing something right..

or maybe West is indeed helping the Chinese success?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#23

Very optimistic piece about the Chinese economy from a Chinese American who now resides in China. The author works for Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, whose company Amazon greatly benefits from China. There is no doubt this is a piece that is trying to rally around a very unlikely scenario where the US administration will give into Chinese belligerence and back off on trade tariffs at the end of Novemb…

So any positive things said about China from a Chinese American should be discounted?

Nope, simply giving context

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#24
post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

They stole the idea from the US: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/

In the 18th and 19th centuries, infringement of British patents was stated U.S. policy. In contrast, China keeps saying one thing and doing another. For example: they deny any involvement in industrial espionage, yet keep doing it. They are a member of the WTO, yet they consistently flout its rules. Then they have the chutzpah to complain about U.S. tariffs. If you ask me, it's the malicious and persistent dishonesty that irks other countries almost more than economic competition.

https://www.itif.org/publications/2015/09/17/false-promises-...

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't. China steals everything worth stealing from anyone that has it.

Censorship is bad. Free exchange of information is good. Unless we're talking about IP, then suddenly the opposite is true. Really, when you get under all the BS from people who've been propagandized against China, they believe America should win and China should lose. Of course China isn't going to agree to this, and they're big enough that they don't have to. Might makes right, until China becomes the mightiest glo…

> Censorship is bad. Free exchange of information is good. Unless we're talking about IP, then suddenly the opposite is true.

Alright, let's torture your false equivalence a little more: you shouldn't have privacy because that's prevention of the free exchange of information.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#26
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't. China steals everything worth stealing from anyone that has it.

Censorship is bad. Free exchange of information is good. Unless we're talking about IP, then suddenly the opposite is true. Really, when you get under all the BS from people who've been propagandized against China, they believe America should win and China should lose. Of course China isn't going to agree to this, and they're big enough that they don't have to. Might makes right, until China becomes the mightiest glo…

Not only that, the political rhetoric just massively overstates reality.

From PIIE [1],

> Overlooked are the data that suggest the popular narrative exaggerates the magnitude of China's forced technology transfer and theft and does not allow for the possibility that China's protection of intellectual property is improving rather than worsening. […] Since the subsidiaries of these holding companies using the licensed foreign technology are located in other jurisdictions worldwide, China probably ranks second globally in the magnitude of licensing fees paid for technology used within national borders.

From MMC's Brink [2]

> In the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s, Western firms such as Apple and Intel made large profits by investing in China to take advantage of the cheap labor, often at terrific human cost. As China’s economy grew and the population became wealthier, Western firms were then able to profit by selling their products back to the wealthier children of the same labor force that made them. The Chinese government saw this happening and wanted Western firms benefiting from the Chinese market to give something back. It established a system of approving foreign investments on the condition that the businesses involved agreed to partner with local firms and transfer knowledge and skills to the local Chinese market.

and [3]

> …Paul Goldstein, an IP expert at Stanford. Instead, it’s given away in negotiations with Chinese businesses, officials and investors.

[1] https://piie.com/blogs/china-economic-watch/china-forced-tec... [2] https://www.brinknews.com/why-china-is-a-leader-in-intellect... [3] https://www.brinknews.com/how-much-american-ip-is-china-stea...

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So any positive things said about China from a Chinese American should be discounted?

Nope, simply giving context

Then you neglected to include the ethnicities/nationalities of the photographer, contributing authors, and editorial staff of the NYTimes. Wouldn't that be similarly useful context?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#28
I think China "scaled" really fast and they're too big to fail. But as an asian foreigner non-ml tech guy, I don't plan to stay here. Things look good on paper, but the working condition, environtment is not the best in the world and i don't think it is ideal place to start everything from scratch as there are big class gap and the need of guanxi.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#29

"The West was sure the Chinese approach would not work. It just had to wait. It’s still waiting." Waiting, crossing fingers, thinking wishfully, hoping, and acting upon it. China is doing something right.. or maybe West is indeed helping the Chinese success?

Or maybe in the short term China will "win" (America declines, Chine's influence rises). Only to find that they are unable to develop their own tech, come up to solutions to keeping said tech running 10-20 years down the line, etc etc.

I could totally see a future where America gets embroiled in a civil war and China's experiencing a sort of "island syndrome" ala Japan where all their tech was advanced at one point and now is stuck in time.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#30
post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

I was going to go to bed (it's 2:29 AM here), but Richard Hammond is a fantastic orator and a delight to listen to

Also he looks so YOUNG in that video

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