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China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

nytimes.com

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Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#31

Post by gammateam »

neya wrote: post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

All great nations are built by theft of a valuable resource.

It's the sure fire way to get ahead in any game.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#32

Post by api »

neya wrote: post #2

Well, one thing that is mentioned in the article, but deserves a lot more attention is IP theft. You should read about the chilling IP theft case of the bullet train where China pretended to contract Japan for the bullet train, but used it to steal their IP, patent it all and screw them over. Here's a really good documentary on how much engineering went into Japan's bullet trains. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4a…

China has also totally rejected environmentalism and monetary discipline. Need energy? Burn coal with no scrubbers and fake the air quality data. Have waste? Dump it in rivers and bribe local officials. Economy slowing? Print money. Need infrastructure? Print the money to pay for it.

Western liberals say ignoring the environment will catch up to them. Western conservatives say you can't ignore fiscal discipline forever. So far both are wrong.

These go along with IP as things China is ignoring. They seem to be calling BS on all forms of large scale socioeconomic restraint that might restrain GDP growth. Strap a brick to the accelerator and go.

It's an interesting experiment and as others have pointed out not that different from America in the 19th century.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#33

Post by joefranklinsrs »

fatjokes wrote: post #27
joefranklinsrs wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, simply giving context

Then you neglected to include the ethnicities/nationalities of the photographer, contributing authors, and editorial staff of the NYTimes. Wouldn't that be similarly useful context?

Now you are just grasping at straws :) but hey, everyone on the internet is a racist right?

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#34

Post by archibaldJ »

aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #10
faitswulff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To see all this being stolen by someone who just walked in, pretending to make a deal, is so painful. I mean, if you want to talk about pain, a lot of Chinese people see Japan primarily as the country responsible for the Rape of Nanking [0], among other atrocities. It doesn't make IP theft justified, but it probably puts it into context for why the Chinese government, people, or companies would have very little com…

Oh come on. Chinese are known for stealing IP from everyone including other Chinese. They consider this an achievment. They would have stolen the tech from anyone else, Japanese or not.

Yeah. Just googling about Alibaba in Chinese and one would find articles about the IP theft culture within the organisation. There are tons of stories circulating in Chinese start-up communities about how project managers from Alibaba, Tencent, etc, pretended to be interested in funding (or collaborating with) a start-up before stealing ideas/designs/code/algorithms from them.

e.g. https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/29783732

Edit: elaboration

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#35

Post by faitswulff »

fatjokes wrote: post #19
joefranklinsrs wrote: post #9

Very optimistic piece about the Chinese economy from a Chinese American who now resides in China. The author works for Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, whose company Amazon greatly benefits from China. There is no doubt this is a piece that is trying to rally around a very unlikely scenario where the US administration will give into Chinese belligerence and back off on trade tariffs at the end of Novemb…

So any positive things said about China from a Chinese American should be discounted?

Seems like anything said about China by Chinese (anywhere) should be discounted, which leaves it up to the true experts on China - people not in, involved with, or knowledgeable about China!

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#36

Post by gammateam »

bilbo0s wrote: post #15
rongenre wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They stole the idea from the US: https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirates-too/

Wow. So they steal bullet trains etc and we stole steam tech etc. I guess it just indicates that it's foolish for a nation to pay for technology if it's poor. I wonder are there any examples of poor nations in history that actually paid market prices for technology, and became super powers? (Or at least maybe regional powers?)

Would Germany count? Obviously Post WWII without any of their acquisitions, debilitated infrastructure, and debt

Yet third time's a charm!

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#37

Post by thenanyu »

"A little bit of slope makes up for a lot of y-intercept" — China seems to have taken this to heart.

- The amount spend by gov and private sector on education is insane; high literacy rate is an amazing accomplishment.

- Requiring foreign firms to give up technologies for market access is more or less the embodiment of this idea.

- IP theft is similar, you're trading a reputational hit for the means of growth.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#38

Post by whooshee »

archibaldJ wrote: post #34
aaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on. Chinese are known for stealing IP from everyone including other Chinese. They consider this an achievment. They would have stolen the tech from anyone else, Japanese or not.

Yeah. Just googling about Alibaba in Chinese and one would find articles about the IP theft culture within the organisation. There are tons of stories circulating in Chinese start-up communities about how project managers from Alibaba, Tencent, etc, pretended to be interested in funding (or collaborating with) a start-up before stealing ideas/designs/code/algorithms from them. e.g. https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/297837…

That strategy is not uncommon for big companies, think about Facebook, Microsoft.

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#39

Post by simion314 »

dforrestwilson wrote: post #12
Edmond wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP theft is an important part of the Chinese "Miracle" but it is short-sighted to focus too much on that...If IP access is all it took, I think we would have seen the Chinese achievement replicated in many other places.

Most countries don’t have the military or self-sufficient economics of China though. French Polynesia could probably never do this kind of thing to Japan for example.

What do you mean? Can NATO or US force any law they want? If I am in a small country and decide that patents and copyright is evil should I expect a war? If not what do you mean by military in your comment?

As I see it if you don't like China politics don't do business with them and do not involve the army(though we all know some big countries like to get involved in smaller countries politics and force laws).

Re: China Rules – The Land That Failed to Fail

#40

Post by fatjokes »

joefranklinsrs wrote: post #33
fatjokes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you neglected to include the ethnicities/nationalities of the photographer, contributing authors, and editorial staff of the NYTimes. Wouldn't that be similarly useful context?

Now you are just grasping at straws :) but hey, everyone on the internet is a racist right?

You didn't dig up some undisclosed connection between the author and the Chinese communist party, or other business interests that may taint their reporting. You are only suspicious because of their ethnicity.

And relax, as Avenue Q states: everybody's a little bit racist! But discussion on HN is meant to be substantiative, and part of that is trying to avoid ad-hominem attacks with a racist tint.

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