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Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

elementary.io

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Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#361
post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

I'm terrible person, but I couldn't resist to get example of very ugly and visually inconsistent linux distro. And that guy reviewing it, is saying the dream distro in video title. What?

Just watch the video and wait for settings app to get what I'm talking about. If it miss-aligned items don't bothers you, then you're weird (or maybe I'am) :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCsRMLhVL8Y&t=418s

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using the Kde desktop (Kubuntu) for about 6 months now after switching from Windows 10 for Ruby development. The UI is damn good. Way more polished and consistent than what passes for the three way mess that the Windows 10 UI is these days. Straight out of the box you get a polished, Windows 7 type layout, complete with a start menu better than Windows, consistent fonts and smooth animations. And unlike eve…

Imho, gnome is quite nice. I think I'm in the minority maybe but I would be pretty sad if gnome went away one day (or had another memory leak/slowdown issue)

I kinda like gnome too, so I never thought I would say this, but "I miss Ubuntu's Unity". And boy I hated it in the beginning. Who is minority now? :D

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks I was staring at the code examples trying to figure out which language it was. Some of the examples looked like C# but then some I could have swore were C++. Took me a minute.

Vala is to me the Dutch of programming languages. A fine language. When I hear it I first "know" it's English, then I know it's Danish, then I "know" it's German. Which is when I realise is has to be Dutch. But should I learn Dutch? Even though it's a fine language? Maybe I'm better off learning English and German first. And French. Dutch, and Vala, are too niche. I wish ElementaryOS, would, in probably this order, w…

I don’t think Vala is the problem. The problem is GObject, and if you are tied to GObject, Vala is probably as good as or better than the alternatives. The only language that is clearly better than Vala is Go (better tooling and type system, quite a lot simpler, etc), but its bindings weren’t mature (and still aren’t terribly mature) when elementary kicked off.

Linux really just needs a better GUI toolkit than GTK and Qt, but these things are tremendously complex to build and as shitty as the web is, it’s quite a lot less shitty than these toolkits. This is why I think the ChromeOS model is the right way to go—every app’s UI is a browser app with a local daemon running on the backend, maybe in a container (but do away with ChromeOS’s custom modified kernel and prohibition against native code execution). In the worst case we’re writing JavaScript/TypeScript/etc on a browser instead of Vala on GObject, but WASM may well mean that we can write in any language.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have run exclusively Linux and mostly on laptops for 15 years and it's been about 10 years since I have had problems with packages clashing, except for python pip. (I don't use python though)

Does it sleep nicely on closing the lid?

My main computer for last few years has been an Asus X305 laptop, using Ubuntu 14.04 with the i3 tiling window manager (i.e., there is no desktop). It's best computing environment I've had since I started out on a TRS-80 in 1979.

My i3 setup is not tweaked to auto-sleep on lid close. I'm sure it would have been easy to set up when I installed i3 back in 2015, since the sleep-on-close worked with Ubuntu's Unity desktop. Instead, when I installed i3 I attached sleep function to a hotkey, so before I close the lid I press the hotkey (if I want system to sleep). It is totally not a big deal. The system does autoresume when I open lid, which it also did in Unity environment. But if it didn't that would also not be a big deal.

To me the idea that someone would reject a superior system if it didn't auto-sleep (or auto-resume) on lid close/open is bizarre. I actually prefer to manually control with a hotkey.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#365
post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

Desktop Linux isn't really that difficult. It could be easier. The thing is that the people who want "really easy" probably aren't going to bother installing any new OS. Microsoft and Apple work hard, not just to make their OS easy but update their OS to whatever random hardware or software thing has come out (games and printers, say). Not being able to do "this one thing" is the main complaint I hear from friends wh…

It's not, it just can be ugly as some distros are showing us.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, they'll be okay as long as they only use the browser. When they need to edit a MS Excel file, or use their digital signature (mandatory for companies in my country), or use some accounting software... or anything like this, you understand that Linux isn't as ready for the mainstream desktop as we think it is.

Your country mandate digital signature that aren't cross platform?

Some are compatible, some aren't. And even if yours is technically compatible, if you run into problems with the website or program where you need to use it -- and you will -- you're on your own.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree. The design is fine, functionally, but there's a certain harmony missing from it and most Linux desktops (even elementaryOS') that makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Mind you, I say that as a macOS user (although I did run Linux full-time for a good six years in a past life), and I'm sure many a Linux user will call the macOS interface toy-like to their eyes. Even thoug…

> makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Fascinating. I consider systems like Android, Windoze and MacOS to be like toys for the same reason: superficially beautiful, but not actually a good tool for work.

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vala is to me the Dutch of programming languages. A fine language. When I hear it I first "know" it's English, then I know it's Danish, then I "know" it's German. Which is when I realise is has to be Dutch. But should I learn Dutch? Even though it's a fine language? Maybe I'm better off learning English and German first. And French. Dutch, and Vala, are too niche. I wish ElementaryOS, would, in probably this order, w…

The gobject system that underlies Vala is a language agnostic mechanism. Vala also produces gobject introspection information, so bindings can be automatically generated for many languages, including Python and Ruby. Obviously, that doesn't solve the problem of Vala being a barrier to entry for developers wanting to work on Elementary's core apps. (I once offended some Dutch friends of mine by calling Dutch "German w…

GObject is language agnostic in the sense that it’s terrible in every language. You still have another type system and memory model that is different from those of the host language, and you end up writing code that feels only marginally better than writing GObject in C. It’s all terribly disappointing in my experience. GObject has served us well, but if the Linux desktop is to survive, it needs a better desktop toolkit story (I left my suggestion on another comment in this thread).

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree. The design is fine, functionally, but there's a certain harmony missing from it and most Linux desktops (even elementaryOS') that makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Mind you, I say that as a macOS user (although I did run Linux full-time for a good six years in a past life), and I'm sure many a Linux user will call the macOS interface toy-like to their eyes. Even thoug…

> makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Fascinating. I consider systems like Android, Windoze and MacOS to be like toys for the same reason: superficially beautiful, but not actually a good tool for work.

The problem with MacOS is that much of its refinements for power users are so different from Windows (and Linux desktops modeled after it), that people don't expect they can do things the easy way.

Suppose you have a document open. You want to attach it to an email you started writing. In MacOS, you drag the icon from the window's title bar into the email. That's it. No need to browse to the same thing you already have on the screen, because your desktop is a set of objects you interact with... Not a window manager.

If you want to open a file browser, you can right click the title bar on any document, and it will give you a breadcrumb of all the parent directories.

If you move a document you have open in an application, the application will notice, and save further changes to that new location too when you go back to it and press cmd-S.

These are just a few little things in one aspect of the OS. But macOS is full of them. Like consistent keyboard shortcuts.

Or multi touch gestures that act while you perform them, not just trigger an action after. There is a commitment to making the computer work like it should, instead of making the human adapt.

Meanwhile in Windows land, even the official apps can't figure out how they want to look or how they want to work. And this is what Linux desktops based themselves on.

There are of course signs that Apple has also lost its magic, and that a new generation raised on touch and web and cloud has no idea how this stuff works. The idea that you can e.g. scroll casually through a decade worth of emails with one flick, offline, is a pipe dream in Gmail land. It boggles my mind that basic conveniences like sortable, resizable and customizable tables are now a luxury in many apps.

But there still is an insane amount of design thought that went into macOS, and everyone else is years behind. That's just a fact.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> makes them feel like using toys rather than proper desktops. Fascinating. I consider systems like Android, Windoze and MacOS to be like toys for the same reason: superficially beautiful, but not actually a good tool for work.

The problem with MacOS is that much of its refinements for power users are so different from Windows (and Linux desktops modeled after it), that people don't expect they can do things the easy way. Suppose you have a document open. You want to attach it to an email you started writing. In MacOS, you drag the icon from the window's title bar into the email. That's it. No need to browse to the same thing you already ha…

You touch on the real tragedy: that all this may be lost in favor of less well thought out interfaces.
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