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Designing For Jedi

theferrett.livejournal.com

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Re: Designing For Jedi

#31

Post by jbooth »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #28
jbooth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the point of the essay was that your destination, in terms of policy, would most likely lead to the situation he's describing. Take away OSHA, welfare/SS/medicare, the 40-hour work week and the rest of those burdensome regulations and redistributive entitlements and you're pretty much where he described. If you're not that extremist, great. But most libertarians, whether extreme or not, have an annoying tendenc…

The idea that we will end up in a Dickensian (or Somalian) nightmare if we were to reduce the size of the government by any substantial degree (80%? 50%? 20%?) is patently absurd and, hopefully, self-refuting.

Hi. which 80, 50, or 20%?

Re: Designing For Jedi

#32

Post by jbooth »

russellallen wrote: post #26
jbooth wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's election season, and as far as propagandizing, the republicans* have probably had an edge in it on HN. Not that I'm suggesting anything organized on anyone's part, it's just topical right now. It'll drift off the front page soon enough, and all will settle down after Tuesday. *during the fall of even numbered years, you're either a D or an R unless you actually vote third party

Even during the fall of even numbered years, I'm neither a D nor an R. That is because I am an Australian. Edit: and its Spring now, anyway.

Well, if we had a parliamentary system in the US, maybe we could have libertarians here too :)

Re: Designing For Jedi

#33

Post by jbooth »

jacoblyles wrote: post #27
jbooth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in the current political climate? Libertarians are a self-caricature. Not you personally, and sorry, but Carl Paladino's got signs up all over New York state that say "I'm mad too, Carl!". That's literally the guy's slogan, major party candidate for Governor of a large and important state, and his platform is a bunch of incoherent nonsense. And 99% of self-described libertarians are lining up behind these wacko…

Why should I take credit for people I don't agree with? Do you think it fair if I lump you together with people you don't like because they are in roughly the same part of the political spectrum as yourself? Politics makes people rude and irrational.

If you don't agree with them (and I'm using the royal "you" here), then why are libertarians lining up across the country to support these loonies?

Maybe you're ok, but libertarians in general? Part and parcel of the tea party this year.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#34

Post by trickjarrett »

jacoblyles wrote: post #9
trickjarrett wrote: post #4

It's odd to know Ferrett from the Magic community and then see his link on the tech related site. While very well written and an enjoyable read, my problem with his opinion and the people who think Libertarians = Anarcho-capitalists is that they take it to the complete extreme. Democrats aren't Socialists, etc. My #1 desire with Libertarianism is for a smaller government, not a destroyed government.

What's wrong with anarcho-capitalists? They don't believe in chaos. They believe society would function better if laws were provided in a market and consumers had choices of law providers. They may be wrong, but the position is not a priori laughable. Have you read "The Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman or other pieces of anarcho-capitalist literature? If not, then what gives you the right to dismiss it so easi…

I have not, and I did not mean to sound dismissive of the Anarcho-Capitalist beliefs. I simply meant that the term is not analogous to Libertarianism.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#35

Post by moultano »

jbooth wrote: post #24
moultano wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tired of the crazy libertarians spoiling it for the rest of us. I would like to have something to call myself that includes removing corn subsidies and capping medicare, but also retaining fiat currency and instituting a carbon tax.

I'd suggest "Democrat" :) We might not agree with libertarians 100% of the time, but we're not lunatics, we're with you on social issues, not actually that far economically, and we approach problems with the intention of solving/ameliorating them, rather than using them as social dog whistles. It beats hearing rhetoric about small gov't and then getting Medicare Part D (absolute budget disaster - and obamacare reduce…

I generally vote democrat in national elections, and whoever seems most competent in local elections. The democrats at the moment seem to have a monopoly on "believing in science." So I don't really have much of a choice.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#36

Post by jacoblyles »

jbooth wrote: post #25
jerf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do appreciate you posting another example of the very mistake I was describing, I still have to admit I'm a little astonished. After all that you still think you actually know me well enough to know what my destination is? Just from the fact that I at one point used the word libertarian? At what point did I say to take away OSHA, welfare/SS/medicare, the 40-hour workweek (to the extent that it even exists), a…

Hi, please reread? I specifically said not you personally. And if we're talking about budget balance and actual policy details? Great. That's what most libertarians never ever do, they just prattle on about how less government would be better in theory. Oh, and cut taxes. So, again, not you specifically, but including you, I've almost never heard a practical policy suggestion from a libertarian. Something like "impor…

To be blunt, you don't know the first thing about libertarians and I think you should stop using the word as a synonym for "Republican". Just looking through the first page of the Cato Institute's blog, here's a post criticizing the future Republican Speaker of the House for pandering to the Medicare crowd:

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/boehner-endorses-more-medicar...

90% of articles at Cato, Reason, and other libertarian publications between 2001 - 2009 were critical of Republicans when they were in power and running up a big debt, starting wars, and generally making a mess of the place.

If you listen to ACTUAL LIBERTARIANS, you will find plenty of unapologetic concrete plans for reducing government spending. These plans are ignored by 100% of Democrats and 90% of Republicans, but we hope in time to have a larger influence over society. People like you using the word "libertarian" even when you don't know what it means is a good sign that we are increasing our visibility at least.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#37

Post by jacoblyles »

jbooth wrote: post #33
jacoblyles wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I take credit for people I don't agree with? Do you think it fair if I lump you together with people you don't like because they are in roughly the same part of the political spectrum as yourself? Politics makes people rude and irrational.

If you don't agree with them (and I'm using the royal "you" here), then why are libertarians lining up across the country to support these loonies? Maybe you're ok, but libertarians in general? Part and parcel of the tea party this year.

To the extent that the libertarian voting bloc goes Republican this year, it will probably have something to do with the $1.4 trillion deficit. During the Bush years, people that have roughly libertarian values went Democrat (you can look up old Cato articles for details) so it is not as if they are beholden to any one party.

Unfortunately our system forces people to choose between the lesser of two evils and right now many people are blanching at the deficit.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#38

Post by jbooth »

jacoblyles wrote: post #36
jbooth wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, please reread? I specifically said not you personally. And if we're talking about budget balance and actual policy details? Great. That's what most libertarians never ever do, they just prattle on about how less government would be better in theory. Oh, and cut taxes. So, again, not you specifically, but including you, I've almost never heard a practical policy suggestion from a libertarian. Something like "impor…

To be blunt, you don't know the first thing about libertarians and I think you should stop using the word as a synonym for "Republican". Just looking through the first page of the Cato Institute's blog, here's a post criticizing the future Republican Speaker of the House for pandering to the Medicare crowd: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/boehner-endorses-more-medicar... 90% of articles at Cato, Reason, and other libe…

Ooh, CATO wrote a blog post with some token criticism?

They're still gonna line up behind the banner when it matters.

90% of everything Cato did during the Bush years was just the opposite, supporting the republican party and/or undermining the democratic party. Then they throw in a little 10% of criticism to make it look like they're principled, and people like you just fall right in line.

If you vote for republicans, you're a republican. Period. Here you are saying your plans are ignored by 100% of democrats, excuse me? Obama cut your taxes, and Republicans are the ones who time and time again ramp up government spending and deficits, then leave it to the democrats (Clinton, Obama) to clean up the mess.

And, yeah, you're increasing your visibility, but it's all tea party crazies. To these people, "i don't like government" is a synonym for "i don't like obama". There is no deeper principle there than that. Good luck with those guys.

Unfortunately, in American politics, you have to pick a side. I'm sympathetic to some bits of libertarian philosophy but I'll oppose anything that enables the Republican party with my wallet, my vote, my phone, and my shoe leather.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#39

Post by ajuc »

DannoHung wrote: post #6
trickjarrett wrote: post #4

It's odd to know Ferrett from the Magic community and then see his link on the tech related site. While very well written and an enjoyable read, my problem with his opinion and the people who think Libertarians = Anarcho-capitalists is that they take it to the complete extreme. Democrats aren't Socialists, etc. My #1 desire with Libertarianism is for a smaller government, not a destroyed government.

What's the easiest way to make an organization get smaller?

Introduce fees.

Re: Designing For Jedi

#40

Post by jacoblyles »

jbooth wrote: post #38
jacoblyles wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt, you don't know the first thing about libertarians and I think you should stop using the word as a synonym for "Republican". Just looking through the first page of the Cato Institute's blog, here's a post criticizing the future Republican Speaker of the House for pandering to the Medicare crowd: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/boehner-endorses-more-medicar... 90% of articles at Cato, Reason, and other libe…

Ooh, CATO wrote a blog post with some token criticism? They're still gonna line up behind the banner when it matters. 90% of everything Cato did during the Bush years was just the opposite, supporting the republican party and/or undermining the democratic party. Then they throw in a little 10% of criticism to make it look like they're principled, and people like you just fall right in line. If you vote for republican…

Cool dude. Good to know that I'm arguing with a close-minded person who doesn't know much about libertarianism and doesn't care to learn anything.
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