Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS • Hacker News Board

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#331

Post by floatboth » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

scythe wrote: post #134

hawski wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning Vala is still far better than GObject-C. Rust GTK bindings are probably not yet there. So what's left? Python and JavaScript. If you care about native performance the way I believe they are these will also not cut it. Vala seems then a logical choice, especially at the time they were deciding. The question I have is: will Vala be supported further by Gnome in foreseeable future? I heard some time ago that it…

https://blogs.gnome.org/mcatanzaro/2017/02/19/on-problems-wi... > There are currently 179 unreviewed patches in Vala’s request queue. The oldest patch there is 2,556 days old, so we know that it’s been seven years since anyone has cared for the outstanding patches. Any of those discouraged contributors might have eventually turned into Vala maintainers if only their patches were reviewed. Of course, most would not ha…

> /2017/02/19

The situation seems much better now

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#332

Post by floatboth » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

hawski wrote: post #29

kitsunesoba wrote: post #13

The project is interesting and I have to give it props for being one of the few Linux distros that’s put the necessary level of thought into UI/UX and made consistency a priority. That said, I question some of their technical choices, most namely the choice of Vala as the project’s official language. Not that Vala is bad, but it’s incredibly niche at best and I think it severely limits contributions. Not many are goi…

Learning Vala is still far better than GObject-C. Rust GTK bindings are probably not yet there. So what's left? Python and JavaScript. If you care about native performance the way I believe they are these will also not cut it. Vala seems then a logical choice, especially at the time they were deciding. The question I have is: will Vala be supported further by Gnome in foreseeable future? I heard some time ago that it…

> Rust GTK bindings are probably not yet there

They're good enough for https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Fractal :)

> what's left? Python and JavaScript

And D, and C++. gtkmm (C++) is really underrated imo

> will also not cut it

SpiderMonkey (gjs) is a fast JIT. Of course you'll have more RAM usage than with a compiled language, but performance should be good.

(And don't forget that many GUI applications spend way more time in the GUI library's code than in the application code.)

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#333

Post by floatboth » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

Investogician wrote: post #38

LeoPanthera wrote: post #12

I've recommended Fedora to several "I'm scared of computers" people recently and the experience has been very good. The new GNOME does require 5 minutes of tutorial, but after that they've been completely happy exploring on their own. The new "Software" app is an excellent GUI for installing new apps and updating the system. Personally I use Macs but if I didn't, Fedora would probably be my next choice. It has by far…

For the "I'm scared of computers" crowd, isn't it still a bit hands-on to get proprietary codecs so you won't run into to problems watching things like YouTube?

YouTube is mostly VP9 (and now slowly getting into AV1). Firefox actually automatically downloads OpenH264 for all the other online video.

MP3 patents have expired, so distros are shipping MP3 codecs out of the box now.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#334

Post by secure » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

Folcon wrote: post #324

zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

So one thing I don't understand is why window managers in linux never seem to have ways to let the user tweak the UI? I mean it's something to add, but I find it odd that no one has thought to add it? Or is it just a feature hidden somewhere? I've thought on several occasions that I'd be pretty happy if I could just hijack how the UI layer was rendering some program, tweak text sizes, adjust colours and make that a u…

The look & feel of applications can be changed by using GTK or Qt themes and there’s entire websites dedicated to sharing these.

Isn’t this what you describe?

Side note: Window managers are only responsible for the window decoration, i.e. the frame around the contents and the title bar. Not a lot to tweak there, but most window managers do actually allow changing pretty much every aspect of it. GTK/Qt are toolkits, not window managers.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#335

Post by floatboth » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

seltzered_ wrote: post #98

Question: This may pertain more to GTK, but does gtk/elementary os have an equivalent to macOS's core animation libraries? Particularly to support interactive / fluid interfaces (see https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/803/ )? I did a cursory look and couldn't find much. I've been fairly familiar with macOS development particularly for trying to do more experimental UI (fluid animation) the past few year…

libdazzle (developed for GNOME Builder) has some fancy animated widgets and whatnot

https://valadoc.org/libdazzle-1.0/index.htm

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#336

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

iforgotpassword wrote: post #294

zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

Agree, and this is why I don't recommend Linux to anyone who isn't a techie. It's just plain ugly and that's the first thing people notice. There have been improvements and exceptions here and there, but the UI sector seems so volatile that just because current GNOME or KDE look consistent and usable, I can't expect the next iteration to be good as well. Since starting to primarily use Linux in 2008, I've consecutive…

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#337

Post by mcjiggerlog » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

I recently installed kubuntu with the latest version of KDE Plasma and was blown away. This is by far the most polished linux experience I've ever had. My girlfriend who is definitely not a linux user forced me to install it on her laptop too after seeing it.

Everything "just works", even more than macOS IMO, and you can configure everything to your hearts content. Animations are smooth, UI is very polished and consistent. Definitely recommend checking it out.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#338

Post by 9712263 » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

thawkins wrote: post #303

rcarmo wrote: post #269

I don’t get the hate, really. It’s the only distro I’ve used in the past few years with a “nice enough” desktop where my Mac instincts translate across and where I can use anything packaged for Ubuntu with zero hassles. I’ve been running it on a low-end Chromebook for a long while now, and upgraded from 0.4.1 to 5.0 via the CLI (not recommended, but feasible if you know what you’re doing), and other than the ultra-ni…

mail on 5.0 is just plain broken when used with gmail. refuses to log in.

Just setup a google app password.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#339

Post by bubblethink » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

jenscow wrote: post #306

thekelvinliu wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree with you about the plumber. it doesn't matter. but imo that example is not really an analogous situation. what if your instrument was always out of tune? or if a member of your ensemble couldn't keep time? i bet that would prevent you from making a record or being productive otherwise as a musician. as a full time developer and someone who does notice these little things, i care a lot about good design and vi…

Linux desktop is more like an unpolished trumpet, with a few dents. After a small amount of tuning, it plays the perfect note every time. You can take it apart, and adjust the internals. If you wish, you can turn it into any other type of instrument. Then you have macOS, perfectly round, so shiny you can see your face, including the insides... the nicest looking trumpet money can buy. But it comes in one piece, only…

These analogies are fun. Reminded me of that Neal Stephenson book, "In the beginning was the command line".

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#340

Post by Folcon » Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

secure wrote: post #334

Folcon wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So one thing I don't understand is why window managers in linux never seem to have ways to let the user tweak the UI? I mean it's something to add, but I find it odd that no one has thought to add it? Or is it just a feature hidden somewhere? I've thought on several occasions that I'd be pretty happy if I could just hijack how the UI layer was rendering some program, tweak text sizes, adjust colours and make that a u…

The look & feel of applications can be changed by using GTK or Qt themes and there’s entire websites dedicated to sharing these. Isn’t this what you describe? Side note: Window managers are only responsible for the window decoration, i.e. the frame around the contents and the title bar. Not a lot to tweak there, but most window managers do actually allow changing pretty much every aspect of it. GTK/Qt are toolkits, n…

Right, but that seems to be something that requires the user specifically to be a dev? And to know how to compile each program they need to tweak?

I'm thinking of something where say I load up a program UI Tweak, I don't need to know anything about the software I'm working with, I just select the element that I want to adjust, the label sizes for text in the dialogue, or the colour of the text by clicking on it.

Think Autohotkey's spy tool[0], when using Autohotkey with the spy tool, I just select the elements that I want to manipulate and then choose what I want to do with them. In my opinion, this significantly lowers barriers to entry for users wanting to change things to suit them. Then the developers of such software can work out ways of making apps work better with such a system. Maybe linux based UI apps need to improve their api so that they can take instructions to adjust it? Or they just add some simple hooks the UI Tweak can understand and use to adjust behaviour?

I don't know what users will want, but allowing users to describe what they want, letting them know it's possible, and giving them an avenue to share and communicate their needs can only help improve the quality of the software, as well as provide an avenue for devs that care about user experience to have a channel to understand what needs might not be being met by existing offerings.

- [0] Image example here => https://stackoverflow.com/a/45680175