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Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

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Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#321

Post by icebraining »

solarmist wrote: post #268
llIIllIIllIIl wrote: post #34

I tried to use the OS multiple times through the recent years, but every time there's a missing feature that breaks all bi+lingual user experience: You cannot switch the keyboard layout for each window separately. Seems like they do not care about anyone except exclusively English speaking audience.

This. There are 1,000 of these little things that just aren't right with linux as a desktop that make me drop it in less than a week every time I try it out. * How to I switch keyboards from English to Japanese easily? * How do I run excel or Lightroom or blah software that I'm already familiar with? * How do I upgrade my OS if I don't know the difference between Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 and Linux 3.16.0-4-generic…

> How do I upgrade my OS if I don't know the difference between Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 and Linux 3.16.0-4-generic or some such? Or even the difference between Intel and AMD? Why am I picking "amd64"? I have an intel processor! (That was hypothetical don't answer that)

Are you using some arcane distro? In most you just tell it to upgrade, you never need to know specific package names or version.

> How do I buy a new laptop that all of the hardware just works like it's supposed to?

Buy one that says so?

> How can I upgrade a piece of hardware and be sure it'll work?

Buy one that supports Linux?

> Only macOS and Windows answer all of those questions.

People with Macs who can't run some Windows-specific app, or don't have drivers for some specific hardware, is a common occurrence in my workplace. Also Windows devs who can't test stuff in Safari.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#322

Post by MrTonyD »

billfruit wrote: post #315
dataflow wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a no frills experience that just works, give Lubuntu a try. I can't speak for the UI but Aptitude vomits broken dependencies every time you have to upgrade your distro. It made me absolutely despise package management (I'm a Windows guy) until I switched to Arch and realized a package manager that is a pleasure to work with is not an inherent oxymoron. Obviously UI is another story but at least this one…

I do think windows update process is also seriously broken: no info given to users what is being changed, no indication given how long it will take, and often taking many hours to complete, all the while your computer remains unusable; I do not know why Microsoft is not being taken to task for such a shoddy experience.

I'm an old timer. I remember when Microsoft would expire your license - for any of their applications - essentially at random. And they disabled reloads of the software and disabled reinstalls of the entire OS. Even after you paid them again, it was a major hassle - but Mocrosoft didn't care about customer complaints as long as the money was rolling in (Bill Gates at the time said that "I am a businessman" when he dismissed customer concerns.)It was the Federal Government which forced them to stop breaking systems, threatening to pass laws against their practices. That's also about the time that Microsoft hired ALL the major PR firms to change their image (and Bill suddenly appeared everywhere with his charity - which was only giving away a small portion of his wealth, since he hides most of it offshore and away from any accounting.)

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#323

Post by chris_wot »

nobody271 wrote: post #297
chris_wot wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you used a Linux distro? I haven't unzipped and tarred a file to compile a program in a long time. Everything you need to get on something like Ubuntu you can get from a GUI. I honestly see very little about your argument that is constructive, and in fact "It's not even Linux under the hood. It is Linux." makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Right now I'm using several different distros on a fairly regular basis (all debian based but I'd like to do an Arch Linux build just to learn more). I still have to open the command line constantly, even on Ubuntu. Just the other day I had to do a .tar.xz manually.

Which software program did you need to install?

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#324

Post by Folcon »

zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

So one thing I don't understand is why window managers in linux never seem to have ways to let the user tweak the UI? I mean it's something to add, but I find it odd that no one has thought to add it?

Or is it just a feature hidden somewhere?

I've thought on several occasions that I'd be pretty happy if I could just hijack how the UI layer was rendering some program, tweak text sizes, adjust colours and make that a user specific choice that can be done at the OS level. It would make linux far more accessible in my opinion and give the average user a way to fix issues that as you say may make some feel physically sick and dizzy.

Users could then start sharing fixes and tweaks and devs who are interested could pull in these settings into the main program, the work could be shared and these OS's could get better! =)...

It just seems such a prefect example of give power to your user and everything is editable, many people don't have time to dig into the internals of everything, but they'd be happy using a relatively straightforward tool (or at least one with tons of tutorials) to adjust the programs they use to their liking, and I'd wager they'd be pretty happy sharing the tweaks they made too.

Maybe this already exists? If it does please tell me! It's the one major thing that keeps me coming back to macs/windows machines. I find it pretty funny, most of my linux time is lived in servers and when I was a teen I ran ubuntu desktop for some time, but I just couldn't deal with it after a while. Which is a shame in my book, and I could certainly see something like this being in the community spirit of linux.

PS: If anyone is thinking of doing this and want's to talk to me for some reason, I'll be happy to discuss this further =)...

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#325

Post by lamb_duh »

Digital products illicit emotional responses just like physical ones. Aesthetic clouds our judgement when it comes to usability—it's a well documented universal design principle and affects people's sense of usability regardless of culture, location, or education.

There's a relevant XKCD for this discussion: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/kerning.png

Some folks value privacy and control over appearance. Their sense of value from both outweigh any cons of a bad UI. Others can't move past how a UI feels. Both positions are completely valid.

OSS needs more UI design talent—if you've lodged complaints here, pick a project/distro, dig through the contribution guidelines, and improve the UI.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#326

Post by agumonkey »

zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

When I used it 2-3 years ago the UI was slick, lean, responsive .. above ubuntu in terms of average user appeal.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#327

Post by ivm »

michaelmrose wrote: post #234
zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

If you haven't noticed 90% of people are running windows which is quite frankly ugly by default. Further it was pretty hard to get people to give up fisher price windows xp. It's probably accurate to say that most people aren't terribly concerned with aesthetics as much as functionality. That said steps to achieve a relatively consistent look. Open your configuration app and configure your gtk theme to something that…

> it was pretty hard to get people to give up fisher price windows xp

It was a decade ago. The world has moved on since then and the expectations are much higher nowadays. For example, see software landing pages today vs. 2008. Even modern Instagram photos look like they were professionally edited for a magazine.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#328

Post by agumonkey »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #13

The project is interesting and I have to give it props for being one of the few Linux distros that’s put the necessary level of thought into UI/UX and made consistency a priority. That said, I question some of their technical choices, most namely the choice of Vala as the project’s official language. Not that Vala is bad, but it’s incredibly niche at best and I think it severely limits contributions. Not many are goi…

I don't get the issue. They managed to make something good out of it, it felt like a great tool rather than a niche thing.

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#329

Post by [deleted] »

z3t4 wrote: post #283
zwaps wrote: post #81

Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…

It seems your designer friend has occupational injury, eg she is trained to spot those issues, but it can give problems in real life, where not everything is perfectly aligned.

[deleted]

Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS

#330

Post by nobody271 »

chris_wot wrote: post #323
nobody271 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now I'm using several different distros on a fairly regular basis (all debian based but I'd like to do an Arch Linux build just to learn more). I still have to open the command line constantly, even on Ubuntu. Just the other day I had to do a .tar.xz manually.

Which software program did you need to install?

Tor Browser. There is no right click > unpack on some distributions.

But my main point is that it takes a massive effort to make Linux easy. Anything short of that is just another reskin.

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