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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#431

Post by happymellon »

briandear wrote: post #360
bdamm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're globally standard, decimal, and internally consistent. One never needs to wonder how many meters in a kilometer or how many grams in a kilogram. They have some human usable qualities as well; it's convenient that water freezes at 0°C and that a kilogram of water is also a liter.

Are they globally “standard?” China uses Mou to measure land area. A pyeong is used in Korea for housing floor area, the British use pints in the pub and stone when weighing themselves. The US uses feet and pounds. We use clocks that have 60 seconds, 60 minutes, 24 hours, weeks, months. If we want to be consistent, “minutes” should perhaps be 100 seconds, for instance. Horses are measured in “hands.” “Global standard…

> the British use pints in the pub and stone when weighing themselves.

Using a country that excels in being contrary, to the point of being the national pastime, is a poor example.

Even then we literally use metric for everything else. And although it is referred to as a pint, it is measured in metric.

Weighing yourself in kilos is a more modern thing, but that is really the only thing.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#432

Post by KozmoNau7 »

JCSato wrote: post #297
blhack wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I actually grew up with the metric system. I'm also not the religion I was raised. I do love my nation, which is easy because I'm American and there is a lot to love. Imperial units are just better for humans to use. I would love if somebody could give me a redeeming quality for metric, but so far nobody has.

I generally find them easier to manipulate, which is a frequent use for measuring distance. Honestly, I think the big thing hampering metric adoption is that no one uses decimeters. Kilometers are useful for trip distances, centimeters/millimeters are useful for small/precise measurements, but meters are deeply unuseful (for the same reasons you rarely see things measured in yards). 1/10th of a meter gets you a lot o…

We do actually work in decimeters a lot, we just refer to them in 10cm increments. And conveniently there are 10 units of 10cm in a meter.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#433

Post by atoav »

Just_Smith wrote: post #326
naikrovek wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're bent on the whole number thing. Why? Whole numbers don't make things easier to measure or cut or reason about. I can measure in thirds or fifths of a meter or a foot or an inch or any unit you want with a compass and a straight edge. You're arguing that the mark on the tape measure is possible for imperial and impossible for metric, when thirds are involved. Not true.

Because infinite numbers are not a natural expression of discrete measurements, and when it comes to being price 1/3 = 4 is always going to be easier to put your finger on than 1/3 = 3.333. I work in software and data analysis in the construction industry. A continuous measurement is good for some things, but it's definitely not good for discrete measurements. Furthermore, a lot of the people who work in the field fo…

I work a lot with wood in the metric system and the third thing is bot a problem at all. I never had even remotly any trouble finding 333.33 mm or a 666.66 on a tape measure. For anything that needs extreme accurcay I’d go with my iron ruler with 0.1 mm ruling and beyond that I would go for a caliper.

If you consistently have to use a weird measurement over and over again, you usually end up making a temporary ruler (paper, wood, metal) anyways

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#434

Post by subroutine »

mastazi wrote: post #408
School-Cotton wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that only a minority of people in metric-using countries -- those with basic chemistry knowledge fresh in their mind -- know that "one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade". Probably a similar number of Americans know the same facts. And any of them would answer "How much energy does it take to boil a room-…

> I suspect that only a minority of people in metric-using countries -- those with basic chemistry knowledge fresh in their mind -- know that This is not the case. This part: "one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram" is known by most people, even kids in primary school. In other words everyone knows that a litre of water weighs one kilogram, and that there are 1000 litres in a square me…

"Everyone knows there are 1000 litres in a square metre"

;)

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#435

Post by happymellon »

hrasyid wrote: post #296
blhack wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

I understand some of what you say, but the point of standard unit is not so that people can choose which unit they like. It's to make sure everyone uses the same ones. If all but a few countries used imperial as their standard measure then I'd go for it. But right now it's the odd one out. Itu mostly survived only thanks to being associated with an economic superpower, so international companies can't afford to ignor…

Hate to break it to you, but international companies do ignore it unless they need to print something out for an American to read.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#436

Post by oldandtired »

cesis wrote: post #101
ggcdn wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another anecdote - In structural engineering, US units are way easier to work with, and even in Canada, about 90% the buildings I work on use kips, ft, ksi, etc.

Also electronic device screen size is expressed in inches all over the world, also pipes are often inches, the same applies to nails.

In Australia, we use metric. On the odd occasion, you will find both imperial and metric depending on the application. Our wood sizes are metric, nuts and bolts can be either, nails metric, screws metric, tape measures generally have both imperial and metric, pipes are generally metric though you can get imperial if needed.

I have been using metric since the seventies. About the only things I still use imperial for are people's height and the length of fish (for undersize/oversize determination). In regards to woodworking, I much prefer metric over imperial and the millimetre over just about all other base units.

That's just my opinion.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#437

Post by umichguy »

beloch wrote: post #206
Waterluvian wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's fair to rib my American friends with the fact that Imperial is implemented using metric?

I like to commend my American friends for their undying loyalty to the memory of the Empire. U.S. customary units are derived from units that helped the British conquer the world, but even the British themselves have shamelessly abandoned them for the units of a filthy, monarch-less republic. It's good to see that Americans still subconsciously yearn for the firm ruling hand of their rightful Queen. Note: Americans h…

But Brits haven't completely abandoned them, have they? Maybe for educational, scientific and in manufacturing industries it's all metric but they still seem to use a blend of imperial and metric for day to day stuff. The distance is in miles, speed in miles/hr, they use lbs as well and deg.F from time to time (mostly deg.C tho),"pints" for beer, ft and in for height etc.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#438

Post by atoav »

ubernostrum wrote: post #289
bdamm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're globally standard, decimal, and internally consistent. One never needs to wonder how many meters in a kilometer or how many grams in a kilogram. They have some human usable qualities as well; it's convenient that water freezes at 0°C and that a kilogram of water is also a liter.

a kilogram of water is also a liter I have never, in around four decades of living, had an actual need to determine the mass of a given volume of water, or the volume of a given mass of water. When cooking, I routinely need to split some quantity of an ingredient into thirds or quarters. Yet I am also constantly told that I'm ignorant and backwards and irrational for preferring a system that optimizes for the latter,…

So you never went hiking for a longer period of time or did anything that actually involves carrying water.

I remember when some guys thought about building a pool on the balcony, calculating how much water weighs is admitably not ver often used, but when it is the consistency of the metric system is nice.

I work with wood in mm for years and never had any problem with the metric system. Finding the third, fifth or sixth or whatnot is not hard if you are used to it at all. Converting from mm to meters isn’t hard, etc.

Having a number like 666.66 mm probably sounds scary to measure (beyond the religious connotations), but in fact it is a point on a line that is easy enough to find.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#439

Post by jbay808 »

kderbyma wrote: post #270
gus_massa wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that nobody cares for this level of precision in comercial trade, but as a thought experiment ... According to the first result in Google https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/the-16-most-expensi... > 1. Antimatter — $62.5 trillion per gram > 2. Californium — $25-27 million per gram So the difference is a few dollars per milligram of antimatter, and less than a cent per kilogram of Californium. From https:…

Your math is off..... 62T / 1g = $62B /mg = $62M/ug. $100 million dollar rounding error.....

If you're buying 1 milligram of a substance, how much are you affected by an one microgram error in the definition of a kilogram?

Hint: not by one microgram.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#440

Post by jbay808 »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #154
piano wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really should cut the middle man. What surprised me reading that wiki page is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons . That is mind-boggling.

I've actually become quite fond of liquids being powers of 2 and lengths being broken fractionally. The base unit doesn't really matter (and you can always use decimal length, as is often done when building precision items). So, for liquids, 2 tablespoon = 1 ounce 2 ounce = 1 jack 2 jack = 1 gill 2 gills = 1 cup 2 cup = 1 pint 2 pint = 1 quart 2 quart = 1 pottle ( ½ gallon) 2 pottle = 1 gallon I find it much easier t…

Fractions are nice when the numerator is always 1. They're a pain when it isn't; sorting drill bits or buying material from McMaster Carr, you constantly have to sort out whether 17/64 is larger or smaller than 3/8, and by how much, and it becomes quite burdensome.
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