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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

npl.co.uk

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#411

Post by School-Cotton »

beloch wrote: post #206
Waterluvian wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's fair to rib my American friends with the fact that Imperial is implemented using metric?

I like to commend my American friends for their undying loyalty to the memory of the Empire. U.S. customary units are derived from units that helped the British conquer the world, but even the British themselves have shamelessly abandoned them for the units of a filthy, monarch-less republic. It's good to see that Americans still subconsciously yearn for the firm ruling hand of their rightful Queen. Note: Americans h…

I was born and raised in the US and I don't think I've ever met someone who has any sort of complex about the British Empire, or who would be any more insulted by "you should be ruled by the Queen" than "you should be ruled by the President of Uruguay" (or any other random country). The US was last part of the British Empire before most of our ancestors came to this country.

Honestly your comment, assuming it is meant to be taken seriously, strikes me as bizarre, and I suspect you're misinterpreting your American friends' reactions.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#412

Post by avip »

School-Cotton wrote: post #399
zmix wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand, that you know the metric system, and, judging by your reasoning for your love for the imperial system, I understand, that you know what you are talking about (better than me). So, please, do not understand my comment as wanting to advise you! It's just, that I found this (on the web, one day) to express so much the way I (having grown up with the metric system) feel about it: "In metric, one milliliter…

I suspect that only a minority of people in metric-using countries -- those with basic chemistry knowledge fresh in their mind -- know that "one milliliter of water occupies one cubic centimeter, weighs one gram, and requires one calorie of energy to heat up by one degree centigrade". Probably a similar number of Americans know the same facts. And any of them would answer "How much energy does it take to boil a room-…

We study it in high school.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#413

Post by ajb1 »

Something I've considered recently is the case of estimating heighth (or any length) in customary vs. metric.

In the US, if I'm describing someone, perhaps to a police officer, I can fairly easily conceptualize the difference between 5ft, 5ft 6in, 6ft, or even smaller degrees of difference.

Though I'm certain this is likely just a result of me having grown up with the customary system, it seems like it would be more difficult (or at least more tedious) to estimate the heighth of a person using meters, given that most humans are in the 1.5-1.8m range (by my estimation). Especially when looking only at one gender, the range of possible heights is quite small in meters, requiring more precision to describe.

For example, I can reliably understand and visualize the difference between 5'0" and 5'4".

I'm curious for those in the rest of the world - can you meaningfully visualize the difference between 1.5m and 1.6m? Or perhaps 1.55m and 1.58m?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#414

Post by hamilyon2 »

ajb1 wrote: post #413

Something I've considered recently is the case of estimating heighth (or any length) in customary vs. metric. In the US, if I'm describing someone, perhaps to a police officer, I can fairly easily conceptualize the difference between 5ft, 5ft 6in, 6ft, or even smaller degrees of difference. Though I'm certain this is likely just a result of me having grown up with the customary system, it seems like it would be more…

Well, sure we can. It is a matter of practice, like everything else

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#415

Post by School-Cotton »

AngryData wrote: post #339
naikrovek wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can cut 1/3 of a meter just as accurately as you can cut 1/3 of a yard. Not being a whole number does not make it harder to find where it is.

Yeah just line it up with that non-existant mark on your measuring stick. Is it enough of a tolerance problem to really worry about? Likely not. But you still can't point to a specific line to measure too unless they have specially added 1/3 marks.

> you still can't point to a specific line to measure too unless they have specially added 1/3 marks.

You also can't point to a line to measure a quarter of an inch, unless they have specifically added 1/4 marks. What's your point?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#416

Post by autokad »

quantum_magpie wrote: post #374
autokad wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like imperial units are human units. they are units used on a human scale, where as metric are more 'computer'. example: a human really cant look at something and divide it by 10 very well, but 1/3, 1/2, 1/4, very easy to do. the sizes makes human sense, like a foot being about a human foot, etc.

But they're not! My foot is 25cm, far from '1 foot'. My thumb is 1.5 cm wide, far from an inch. The metric system is actually much more human for me. And I never needed to measure 1/3rds to 0.02mm precision without a precise measurement instrument. And if exact precision doesn't matter then all these arguments about fractions are moot, too!

considering your foot is 2 standard deviations from the mean foot length, that hardly proves anything

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#417

Post by llukas »

ajb1 wrote: post #413

Something I've considered recently is the case of estimating heighth (or any length) in customary vs. metric. In the US, if I'm describing someone, perhaps to a police officer, I can fairly easily conceptualize the difference between 5ft, 5ft 6in, 6ft, or even smaller degrees of difference. Though I'm certain this is likely just a result of me having grown up with the customary system, it seems like it would be more…

This is only due to you being used to certain units.

I was raised in EU using Celsius scale and can relate to full scale. In US I can relate only to 70-80 range as this is what I consciously experienced (ie. adjusting air conditioning). I still need to convert Fahrenheit to Celsius for anything outside of that range.

Also imperial sucks utterly as metric allows almost seamless exchange of mass measurements with volume for of pretty much anything in the kitchen (1g of water is roughly 1cm^3, almost everything we eat is very close in density to water).

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#418

Post by elefantastisch »

gorn wrote: post #237

Recently I have been thinking about if any of our units makes sense in cosmic perspective. Let's take speed of light for example. It's approximately 300000 km/s. But then what is a second? It's 1/60 of a minute which is 1/60 of an hour which is 1/24 of a day(and so it goes) and all those numbers are arbitrary. A day doesn't make any sense outside our planet anyway, I doubt that there is another celestial body in the…

Sounds like you're looking for Planck units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

I would suggest that Planck units scaled by powers of 2 is the closest we can get to a cosmic system of units. The choice of binary is non-arbitrary as it's the smallest base that can be chosen and still provide scaling.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#419

Post by stickfigure »

Just_Smith wrote: post #300
naikrovek wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because adding 7/16ths of an inch to 7/8ths of a mile and getting an answer in inches isn't easy for a human. Adding 1cm to 982m and getting an answer in centimeters is dead easy for a human. THAT'S why human intuition about measurement doesn't mean a damn thing. Using metric means using the system optimized for humans. Period.

Your absolutism is a bit silly. I don't think the Imperial system is good for anything beyond construction or cooking, but there's a reason it excels those areas. And it's exactly because it's more usable by humans in certain contexts (like construction or cooking). 1/3 of a meter should not be an irrational number - how is that "optimized for humans"? A scalable system that shares the divisibility of the foot would…

The imperial system is not good for construction. Try measuring a 2x4 sometime.

It's just an established convention. And it sucks.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#420

Post by stephen_g »

blhack wrote: post #232
kibwen wrote: post #188

See, the US wasn't being stubborn in not adopting metric, it was just waiting patiently for it to progress from beta to 1.0. :) (Fun fact: all the US customary units have been officially defined in terms of their metric counterparts since 1893: https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pml/wmd/m... )

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

You're just familiar with it - as somebody who has grown up with the metric system, I feel exactly the same affection about it, and to me imperial units feel stupid, unworkable and old fashioned.

I think this is the biggest problem with metric/imperial arguments - most of it is actually based on emotional attachment deep down.

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