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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

npl.co.uk

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#331

Post by lifeformed »

megablast wrote: post #279
blhack wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

No matter what is suggested, no matter how much better the alternative, there will always be a group of contrary people. Look at flat earthers. Look at anti-vaxers.

That's... not the same thing. One is: system that is mostly always better but can sometimes be handy for certain contexts. The other is: objectively true thing versus objectively false thing.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#332

Post by [deleted] »

Just_Smith wrote: post #325
naikrovek wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can cut 1/3 of a meter just as accurately as you can cut 1/3 of a yard. Not being a whole number does not make it harder to find where it is.

Ha! I'm happy for your apparent virtuosity, but the whole of America's construction industry is quite a few years into disagreeing with you.

[deleted]

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#333

Post by jodrellblank »

kbenson wrote: post #293
megablast wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what is suggested, no matter how much better the alternative, there will always be a group of contrary people. Look at flat earthers. Look at anti-vaxers.

There are actual benefits to some imperial units when working in small amounts. They can often be subdivided much more easily into amounts that are harder to handle (or at least require going to another order of magnitude to do accurately). For example, dividing a foot into thirds or fourths is trivial, but for a meter it requires either going two orders of magnitude (25/100ths for a quarter) or simply cannot perfect…

"It cannot perfectly represent the amount" you say, and then perfectly represent the amount.

You represent a quarter as the fraction 25/100ths to show how impractical it is, instead of writing 1/4.

Would it be so hard to build a ruler with thirds measured on it, so you don't need to try and guess 0.333333 from mm readings? Like http://teaching.monster.com/nfs/teaching/attachment_images/0... but made of metal

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#334

Post by AngryData »

naikrovek wrote: post #238
blhack wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of the weird people that actually really likes imperial units. For instance: 1 foot -- base 12. This is a superior base to 10. It can be easily divided into 4ths, 3rd, and 2nds. Base 10 can only easily be divided into 2nds. 1 inch -- an easily identifiable unit of measure for smallish things. About the width of my thumb. A pretty good unit. For low precision, inches become 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/6, 1/64, etc. Each…

You are definitely (and thankfully) not the norm. Imperial units are awful. They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. Those are literally the only redeemable qualities about imperial units, and they have nothin…

Fractional units are extremely useful in construction and machining. Now you could use fractions with meters, but nobody does, and im not sure why other than 10 is a shitty starting point for fractions and you end up with crazy fucked denominators.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#335

Post by Brybry »

nhebb wrote: post #330
EricBurnett wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, good for usage you say. Ok, let's stick to "standard" imperial units. How many feet in a yard? Yards in a mile? What the hell is a quart? And since base 12 is great, what is 12 feet called? 144 feet? A 12th of an inch? Or, ounces: How many ounces in a gallon? A pound? And how many _kinds_ of ounces are there, anyways? Fun fact: The term “ounce” is of Latin origin from the word “uncia” which means “a twelfth part…

A pint is what British people drink in pubs while chastising the US for not adopting the metric system.

And then complain about gaining a stone?

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#336

Post by slededit »

edoo wrote: post #314
gnopgnip wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US officially adopted the metric system in 1975 with the Metric Conversion Act.

The act does not require the US to use metric in any capacity. It is optional. If it did kids would not be taught using the imperial system.

The US uses customary measures. Imperial is the old UK system. It has some important differences like the size of a gallon - and perhaps most importantly if you like beer: the size of a pint.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#337

Post by ggm »

kderbyma wrote: post #271
ggm wrote: post #228

Never understood why the reference weight was one and not a maintained average over several or tens. This could have included aperiodic less used reference weights stored differently, different washing cycles &c. I know several bipm participant nations had clones but they were always understood to be daughter weights. Level surfaces (for instance) used to be made as triplets and never pairs: pairs can form lenses. No…

Decay would be exponentially greater with more weights. Causing a larger decrease over time.

Except some kg reference weights gain weight. The washing regime ablates, but the metal matrix is porus at the atomic level (I am told) and so they accrete.

Therefore there would be gains and loses. Not just losses

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#338

Post by AngryData »

naikrovek wrote: post #287
blhack wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They're more ... human, maybe, in that a foot is about one human foot long, and that an inch is about one human thumb width, and how 0F feels "pretty cold" and 100F feels "pretty hot", and to me the charm of imperial units begins and ends right there. As far as we know, humans are the only thing in the universe that care about any of this stuff. A computer couldn't care less if you are using 1 foot or 0.3048 meters.…

Because adding 7/16ths of an inch to 7/8ths of a mile and getting an answer in inches isn't easy for a human. Adding 1cm to 982m and getting an answer in centimeters is dead easy for a human. THAT'S why human intuition about measurement doesn't mean a damn thing. Using metric means using the system optimized for humans. Period.

In what situation would you be adding 7/16ths of an inch to 7/8 of a mile? If you have such crazy tolerances you shouldn't be using fractions from the start. And even if you did, with imperial system you could just write '7/8 mile and 7/16th of an inch' or '7/8 mi. 7/16 " ' and when they measure it out they will measure 7/8 of a mile, then add on that 7/16 inch.

And whatever you are measuring that length with, fucking awesome job getting 1/16 or better tolerances over that amount of distance with .

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#339

Post by AngryData »

naikrovek wrote: post #319
Just_Smith wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point if you don't see the problem of an infinitely repeating measurement. That doesn't translate to a tangible action. You can't cut 1/3 of a meter, and there's no subunit to roll down to that can express the right number. It's not like Imperial system exists for uneducated people - it exists for trades people. Metric is the "simple" system, because it ties back to 10, a number we're all used to.…

I can cut 1/3 of a meter just as accurately as you can cut 1/3 of a yard. Not being a whole number does not make it harder to find where it is.

Yeah just line it up with that non-existant mark on your measuring stick. Is it enough of a tolerance problem to really worry about? Likely not. But you still can't point to a specific line to measure too unless they have specially added 1/3 marks.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#340

Post by int_19h »

bkanber wrote: post #328
kmm wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can just barely feel the difference of temperature of one degree Celsius. I really don't feel multiplying that by 1.8 will make a big difference in how good a scale it is for humans.

As an example, the common temperatures in NYC range from 0-100F. In celcius that's like -18 to +38. I'm a scientist and an engineer, and in those applications C is often better. But in daily life, Fahrenheit makes a ton of sense.

If you live in NYC, maybe. A lot of people don't, and you can find places where ranges in C are "neater" than in F.
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