Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. I would be using Linux full time if the experience was not so jarring all the time. Fonts and themes are off, stuff gets jumbled around, things are wildly inconsistent. You end up spending lots of time doing weird hacks to make everything look alright. Even Elementary will break if you move outside the core applications - it cannot be helped in this ecosystem. When Linux works for you it's so damn great but…
Been using linux for decades and have never had to do any of this. Even 15 years ago I didn't need to.
Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
131–140 of 431 posts
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even so, it’s going to scare off a lot of potential contributors long before they investigate the language deeply simply by having a name they don’t recognize. It effectively limits the contributor pool to those who’ve previously written GTK apps, which is relatively tiny compared to the number of devs coming from more mainstream backgrounds.
Maybe. It didn't scare off me, though. It piqued my interest!
"Familiar to anyone who's seen C#, but maintains API/ABI compatibility with C"
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#133The project is interesting and I have to give it props for being one of the few Linux distros that’s put the necessary level of thought into UI/UX and made consistency a priority. That said, I question some of their technical choices, most namely the choice of Vala as the project’s official language. Not that Vala is bad, but it’s incredibly niche at best and I think it severely limits contributions. Not many are goi…
When a platform gets the user experience right, developers will figure it out. Developers complain endlessly about JavaScript, but they want to target the web, so they made it work. Or Objective-C, and the Mac. Or C++, and Windows. We like complaining, but a non-ideal programming language really isn't a blocker.
The issue I have is that I don't see a great user experience here. This new brand of "consistency" just looks confusing to me. Every possible UI control -- from window title bars to tabs to buttons to lists to labels to text fields -- is a plain gray rectangle, with the same color and border. Am I supposed to figure out everything from context? I don't have much confidence that I'll be able to learn a new app, much less write one that other people will be able to figure out.
The metaphors, where I can find them, make little sense. I don't know why I'd want to "flick through" a grid, to select from a list. How is this better than scrolling through a list? They seem to be blindly copying parts of Apple's systems, without understanding why or when Apple made those design decisions. There's so many obvious rip-offs of macOS here, it's sometimes hard to tell if it's meant to be a parody.
And for some crazy reason I just can't get over the lone word "Applications" sitting in the corner of the screen -- the only word anywhere. It looks like a mistake. At best, it's clumsy. My steering wheel doesn't need "Steering" printed on it.
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#134The project is interesting and I have to give it props for being one of the few Linux distros that’s put the necessary level of thought into UI/UX and made consistency a priority. That said, I question some of their technical choices, most namely the choice of Vala as the project’s official language. Not that Vala is bad, but it’s incredibly niche at best and I think it severely limits contributions. Not many are goi…
Learning Vala is still far better than GObject-C. Rust GTK bindings are probably not yet there. So what's left? Python and JavaScript. If you care about native performance the way I believe they are these will also not cut it. Vala seems then a logical choice, especially at the time they were deciding. The question I have is: will Vala be supported further by Gnome in foreseeable future? I heard some time ago that it…
>There are currently 179 unreviewed patches in Vala’s request queue. The oldest patch there is 2,556 days old, so we know that it’s been seven years since anyone has cared for the outstanding patches. Any of those discouraged contributors might have eventually turned into Vala maintainers if only their patches were reviewed. Of course, most would not have, but if only one or two of the people who submitted patches was an active Vala maintainer today, the project would be in a significantly better state.
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#135Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…
Weird argument. Because I have given Linux systems to the elderly before. People with little to no experience with computers. Guess what they were all fine. My mother was a long time windows user. Kept getting viruses. She was converted to Ubuntu and has used it for over a decade now without issue. Linux is far easier for people than you think. My mother is a senior citizen now and this is her second computer. The UI…
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
This kind of attitude towards less popular programming languages is very damaging to the field of software engineering. Domain-specific languages are our best tool to combat the excessive complexity of software. The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown.
> The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown. This is a value judgement, ripe for disagreement. Why do you think learning a new programming language is not difficult, as others perceive?
However, if you resent being forced to learn a new language, or if you are more of a copy/paste developer than someone who really understands what you're doing[0], yeah, a new language can be a very challenging barrier.
[0] I want to be clear: most people start out with very little clue what they're doing in programming. That isn't meant as a disparaging description. I wrote (and copy/pasted) a hell of a lot of code before I started understanding the underlying mechanics of it all, and I'm still baffled by a lot of the development world (again, hi Prolog and Haskell).
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear these every so often. Just curious if noticing or more so, even being bothered by them is the norm? Example Mint, the font heights I wouldn't have noticed and definitely something I would not be consciously aware of if I used it. And I still don't know what's wrong with the render beyond it looking at bit outdated. Am I the odd person here or is it a vocal minority that have issues with it?
You are part of the vocal, online minority that doesn't look at Mint and cringe because it looks so amateur and dated. Most people intuitively have a sense of whether the software they're using is elegant, polished, and user-friendly without necessarily being able to articulate that the "font heights", etc. are the problem. By a common user's standards, Mint looks amateur and janky compared to Windows 10 and Mac OS.
There is a high level of subjectivity in all these, especially user-friendliness. Polish, you can quantify with stuff like alignment, consistency etc., but for user-friendliness, I find most modern UIs, including elementary or gnome, to be quite hostile. You can stare at pretty icons and parallel and perpendicular lines all day, but how do you get shit done ? That's what most modern designs miss. And it's not just these poor OSS projects. Look at all the random apple inspired navigation changes that google added to their basic navigation in pixel 3, which you can't even change although the old code exists in aosp. TLDR: user friendliness is very hard to get right.
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#138Some of the comments here feel weird. Elementary OS has picked a specific niche, and its arguably the best distribution in it. It has a really well designed and consistent UI experience, and you can't break it. I think most of you just don't realize how difficult linux is for people who barely understand how to use a Mac or Windows machine. Furthermore, linux is a world where mainstream distributions still release wi…
For chromebooks galliumos is very nice as well.
Re: Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS
#139I'd love to have a Linux distro with the frontend of Elementary OS and the backend of Nixos. And I say that as a Microsoft employee. Are there efforts to make Nixos grandma-worthy? Or are the only pretty distros all reskins of Ubuntu?
Not too familiar with Nix, but can't you run different window managers? I know you can install and use Pantheon (Elementary's WM) on Arch: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pantheon