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International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

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Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#31

This is probably the dumbest thing I'll type on HN. In university I just gave up trying to understand why we even needed the Avogadro constant / mole as a fundamental constant. It still confuses me. Why have a difference between molar mass and mass? Why couldn't it just be "1" and everything else change around it?

My understanding is that the cause is error propagation. We can measure certain kind of masses really accurately in unified atomic mass unit. With better relative precision than the Avogadro constant. But if we used kilograms to write down these quantities then they would carry the error of the Avogadro constant needlessly.

Edit: I think your question boils down to "Why do we have two separate units for mass, u and kg, connected by the Avogadro constant?" Most answers dismiss your original question as Avogadro constant is not a unit. But u is a unit and it's the point why we have this constant.

Edit2: To further emphasize my point look at the mass of neutron[1]. It's listed both in kg and u. Note the number of decimal places.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#32
post #3

Veritasium did a great video [0] on this leading up to the vote. [0] https://youtu.be/c_e1wITe_ig

I wish he would spend a bit more time exsplining were some of the constants come from, although that would probably make the video a bit weaker overall. Wasting time on such information.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#33

I get that this is a significant milestone but this seems extremely overstated: "the new changes will have wide-reaching impact in science, technology, trade, health and the environment, among many other sectors." Am I missing something?

I don't know about trade, but kilo standards were deviating by tens of micrograms from eachother, some things are sold at prices which warrant accounting for those micrograms, so a completely stable international definition seems helpful.

Certain types of scientific instrument will need to be recalibrated to meet the new definitions.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#36

This is probably the dumbest thing I'll type on HN. In university I just gave up trying to understand why we even needed the Avogadro constant / mole as a fundamental constant. It still confuses me. Why have a difference between molar mass and mass? Why couldn't it just be "1" and everything else change around it?

As others have noted, knowing the count of entities (note: not atoms, entities - i.e. it can also be molecules) in relation to actual mass is very useful for the physical sciences - at a molecular level the quantities of molecules and atoms interacting matter, not their masses - but mass is the unit I do experiments with.

EDIT: A simple example would be if you were trying to make water - H2O, from hydrogen (H2) and oxygen (O2). The molar ratio is 2:1 - but in doing a practical synthesis, that doesn't tell me how much mass/volume of gases to actually mix up. Avogadro's number and molar mass is what I need to turn those into practical units to work with.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does actually, US measurements are legally defined in terms of metric units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units

They really should cut the middle man. What surprised me reading that wiki page is that apparently the metric system was opposed in the US based on religious reasons . That is mind-boggling.

Is there any compelling reason why the US should switch to the metric system for daily use?

Metric is already used universally in science and engineering, which seem to be the main fields in which consistency across countries matters. I completely agree that in physics, chemistry, engineering, medicine, etc., it is important to use standard units. But what harm is it doing in practice if in everyday life, Americans say things like "I weigh 180 lbs" instead of 81 kg?

The argument that the metric system makes unit conversions easier (e.g., the fact that it's immediately obvious how many meters are in 20 km, but not how many feet are in 12 miles) is true, but not very compelling to me. I virtually never find myself wanting to do these conversions in a non-scientific or non-engineering context, and on the very rare occasions where I need to, I can always look them up on Google.

A good comparison is degrees Celsius, which are just as arbitrary/unscientific (the standard metric unit is the Kelvin). Somehow people around the world get along fine using Celsius.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#38

This is probably the dumbest thing I'll type on HN. In university I just gave up trying to understand why we even needed the Avogadro constant / mole as a fundamental constant. It still confuses me. Why have a difference between molar mass and mass? Why couldn't it just be "1" and everything else change around it?

Simplistically: two moles of protons+two moles of neutrons do not weight the same as a mole of nuclei of He-4, as far as I know.

Re: International System of Units overhauled in historic vote

#40
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much the cylinder will auction for.

At least there will be no disagreement about the shipping weight on the auction listing.

The real question is how many boxes will the fulfilment center place the kg in. If Amazon is anything to go by my money is on 3
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