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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#341

Post by cityzen »

quest88 wrote: post #178
deanmoriarty wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, most of this negativity just appears on HN or on channels who have some strong bias (usually business related) against Facebook. All my acquaintances working in tech, which includes people from very wide sociodemographics ranges, consider Facebook an absolutely prestigious employer, with top talent, top challenges, top compensation and top name for building a personal brand. Hell, I interviewed at…

Yea, I know what you mean. It's unfortunate too since FB does hav some pretty cool things that are worth talking about!

but when you shit where you eat, it all looks like shit.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#342

Post by variable11 »

lrem wrote: post #324
p1necone wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My assumption with mission statements was that they were always bullshit made up by a marketing team or some exec and I wouldn't expect them to have much relation to reality. Was I in the minority?

I work in Google and the mission statement seems to be followed.

Don't be evil...

...except when helping the Chinese government oppress and spy on its citizens.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#343

Post by Iv »

yaacov wrote: post #9

> Ms. Brown said a lot of students criticize Facebook and talk about how they would not work there, but ultimately join. “Everyone cares about ethics in tech before they get a contract,” she said. This describes my what I've observed perfectly. There are very few companies that make new grad offers comparable to Facebook's, and career advancement opportunities and working conditions at Facebook tend to be better than…

That's fine. You can't expect 100% of the taskforce to have the same morals. Thing is, there are enough out there so that immoral companies need to pay more or offer better conditions to have people who would work for less for an ethical competitor.

And actually it probably also means that some people competent enough to gain a salary they consider enough in ethical venues will just say no to Facebook whichever salary they are proposed.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#344

Post by antod »

eesmith wrote: post #252
xxpor wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the nuclear arms race was inevitable. The soviets would have made it eventually anyway, and then what would we (the US) have done? Facebook on the other hand is not inevitable.

Should scientists always be concerned with the ethical consequences of their work? Should Facebook employees always be concerned with the ethical consequences of their work? I think your argument is that the ethics means we really needed enough nuclear weapons to destroy the planet several times over? And we really needed to let the government sell the lie that there was a 'missile gap' to the US population? Or was t…

> And we really needed to let the government sell the lie that there was a 'missile gap' to the US population? Or was that lie in order to hide that there were U-2 overflights? Who were we hiding the knowledge of U-2s from? The Soviets, who could see them on radar and were developing ways to shoot them down? Or the US public?

From memory the "missile gap" wasn't a government lie to hide anything but an election campaign lie by Kennedy to attack the govt and appear tougher on the "commies".

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#345

Post by sjg007 »

wallace_f wrote: post #270
sjg007 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a summary post: https://medium.com/@wtfmitchel/the-political-nature-of-indus... I guess I would read some of his books: Profit over People and the one on Media. He has a 1997 talk at northeastern on youtube where he addresses it a bit during question time.

There are some good thoughts and complaints in there about propaganda and nepotism, but isn't this old news? Isn't it also pervasive throughout society? I mean, there are even blatant industry-wide propaganda agendas such as Harvard scientsts lying about sugar, MIT scientists lying about climate change, and scientists lying before courts about leaded gasoline... Of course always after payments from profit-seeking ind…

I think if you read Chomsky you will find that we've been lead this way for a long time. It is modus operandi.. aka meet the new boss same as the old boss. It's useful to understand the world and why it is the way it is. And in fact the more interesting idea is that we the people can actually exercise our democratic rights to change the situation.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#346

Post by hamandcheese »

deminature wrote: post #298
gpm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that pay and working conditions at Facebook are as good as they are precisely because of people feeling like this. They are having to pay a premium to attract engineers as a result of the moral opposition.

Anecdotally, FB's work/life balance is apparently pretty poor compared to other 'tier 1' tech companies. 50-60hrs+ is required to get above 'meets most expectations'.

Well, if the expectation is that you work a standard 40 hours, then 'meets most expectations' sounds like a typical and expected outcome from working 40 hours.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#347

Post by perseusprime11 »

Facebook and its properties Instagram are destroying the very fabric of modern relationships by creating an always hooked experiences in the name of connecting the world. The sooner people realize the better it will be for it’s wellbeing.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#348

Post by traek »

craigsmansion wrote: post #188
bepotts wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's so transparent at this point. I've listened to podcasts with reporters and they lament the rise of Facebook and how "Facebook is stealing their business" through ads and algorithm changes that hurt them. But the bias doesn't matter because everyone on the internet hates them (and Google) so they just rush to pile on. Anything negative about Facebook gets to the front page very quickly. The thing is, Facebook…

> you don't get billions of users by being evil. Tobacco companies would disagree, no, actually, they would agree, full-heartedly, and pay well for your study that backs that up. > Their engineering team, quality of life, and compensation is extremely hard to beat. Working for Facebook in any meaningful technical capacity makes one a Machiavellian opportunist. For some, that's never worth it. > As a recent college gr…

> Facebook puts a tax on being human, on trying to exist outside of a social vacuum.

I don't know what "trying to exist outside of a social vacuum" means. I also don't know what type of "tax" Facebook puts on being human that isn't levied--to at least some extent--by every other technological advance (telegraph, phone, internet, email, SMS...)

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#349

Post by icedchai »

saagarjha wrote: post #235
icedchai wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask my 3 adopted children.

I hope you don’t consider your children to be some twisted karmic balance for working at Facebook.

Like I said, I never worked at Facebook. I only bought the stock!

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#350

Post by vonmoltke »

saagarjha wrote: post #226
oh-kumudo wrote: post #201

While I feel this title is sensationalized and a little too over your face, like come on you guys all know it is NOT easy to get a facebook job, it is well paid and definitely can have a lots of challenging fun and had a offer from Facebook and at the same the determination/confidence to reject it, IMO, is a privilege not that many people in the world have, I do sympathize with the fact to have a long term career wit…

I mean, you can often find a high paying, interesting job building missiles as well, but I’m sure many would turn that down. The same can be true for Facebook, which has generally had a history of not being the most ethical place to work for. It’s only recently that it’s started to have a negative effect if it’s on your resume, though.

> I mean, you can often find a high paying, interesting job building missiles as well

It might be interesting, but it will definitely not be high paying.

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