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‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#221

Post by ggggtez »

Animats wrote: post #49

...the head of the start-up incubator and investment firm, Y Combinator, gave opening remarks, recommending that young people avoid jobs in big tech. “You get to program your life on a totally different scale.... The worst thing that can happen to you is you get a job at Google.” He called those jobs “$100,000 a year welfare” — meaning, he said, that workers can get tethered to the paycheck and avoid taking risks. Wh…

There is a lot to be said for getting a job at a BigCo and getting out of debt before taking big risks on startups.

Nothing to be surprised about what YC is saying, considering YC makes money if good people work for their startups.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#222

Post by nabla9 »

nprincigalli wrote: post #22

Related, humor, by The Onion Facebook Employees Explain Struggling To Care About Company's Unethical Practices When Gig So Cushy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DiBc1vkTig

It's good satire as always, but its also reality. People are not following strictly their morals or money. They try to balance them both.

People should be more frank about it: "I demand satanic compensation for making people feel bad and agitated."

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#223

Post by saagarjha »

spike021 wrote: post #181
wesleytodd wrote: post #46

Personal anecdote: I was contacted by a facebook recruiter a few years ago. I started the process and also started thinking about if I would like working there. I realized that I disagree strongly with the product, its effects on society, culture and politics. But more importantly I realized I hadn't used the product in like 3 years. I just said no thanks before even finishing the "take home" exercise. At the time I…

>But more importantly I realized I hadn't used the product in like 3 years. How does this matter? Most people don't personally use the products they work on. If someone works on software in flight computers (I don't know the proper term), in most cases I doubt they're pilots actively using said software. I certainly don't personally use the products I work on for my job. A job is a job. Sure some people find work "do…

Flight computers are niche software, while Facebook is meant to be accessible to everyone. If you look at similar products, such as operating systems or browsers, you’ll find many engineers actually do use what they what they work on.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#224

Post by saagarjha »

_hardwaregeek wrote: post #20

Yeah...I doubt that. Especially people attending hackathons. Underlying modern hackathon culture is a serious amount of careerism and showmanship. Most of the kids at hackathons would sacrifice a lot more than morals to get a job at Facebook.

Not everyone attends hackathons. You just see those kids more because of the reasons you listed: they’re a lot more visible.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#226

Post by saagarjha »

oh-kumudo wrote: post #201

While I feel this title is sensationalized and a little too over your face, like come on you guys all know it is NOT easy to get a facebook job, it is well paid and definitely can have a lots of challenging fun and had a offer from Facebook and at the same the determination/confidence to reject it, IMO, is a privilege not that many people in the world have, I do sympathize with the fact to have a long term career wit…

I mean, you can often find a high paying, interesting job building missiles as well, but I’m sure many would turn that down. The same can be true for Facebook, which has generally had a history of not being the most ethical place to work for. It’s only recently that it’s started to have a negative effect if it’s on your resume, though.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#227

Post by kansface »

AlexandrB wrote: post #96
ralusek wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very similar to when you hear people say "I love my job but they don't pay a living wage!" It's because you love your job, you have to pay for that.

This kind of post-facto justification for poor working conditions or wages needs a name, so it can be dismissed out of hand. It seems to assume that the market is “fair” and getting poor pay must be justified by some other factor about the job. In reality, there are plenty of jobs that have garbage pay and suck. As well as jobs that are both lucrative and “easy”. Consider the average CEO: not the exceptional visionar…

> In western societies, no job should pay less than a living wage...

Pay is determined chiefly by supply and demand in the labor market. Jobs that are more fun pay less because the supply of workers is higher. Fairness is literally not part of this equation.

> On the other side of the ledger, you have immigrants with medical degrees, who are driving cabs for minimum wage.

Medical licenses are controlled by the government, not the free market.

> [The free market] is subject to all the same tribal impulses and inequalities that have persisted in humans throughout history.

... and also the Civil Rights Act of 1964. All snark aside, why should we pay a high school paperboy a living wage? What does a living wage even mean - the ability to live in a single bedroom apartment? That runs ~3K/month in SF which is roughly commensurate to $50/hour.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#228

Post by haberman »

jnbiche wrote: post #217
haberman wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of post-facto justification for poor working conditions or wages needs a name, so it can be dismissed out of hand. This seems to capture the current intellectual zeitgeist very well. Once we name something, we can dismiss it without engaging it. I was going to read the rest of your comment, but I decided it was "Jacobin whinging" so I realized I didn't have to.

> I was going to read the rest of your comment, but I decided it was "Jacobin whinging" so I realized I didn't have to. But the rest of the comment supports the first part, which you seem to agree with. Plus, "Jacobin whinging", seriously? Advocating for a living wage is "Jacobin" now?

I regret that my point may not have come across. I don't actually believe in pejoratively labeling any good-faith argument, and I would not actually use a label like "Jacobin whinging" in earnest. My point is: labeling something is not the same as refuting it.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#229

Post by saagarjha »

rifung wrote: post #55
hacknat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that someone smarter than you doesn’t want to work at Facebook? There are plenty of reasons, beyond ideological ones, not to want to work there. I don’t think I have any ideological objections to Facebook, but the product itself doesn’t interest me and I’m not a user.

> I don’t think I have any ideological objections to Facebook, but the product itself doesn’t interest me and I’m not a user. I don't work at FB but I'm sure for a product of that scale even if you don't use or care about the product itself, there may be interesting projects for you to work on. I also don't think I'd care to work on FB the product, but I'm sure it'd be interesting to get to use Haskell to fight spam…

Just because you work on something interesting does not absolve you of the moral responsibility you have to yourself. And just because your project doesn’t seem like it will be used in one way today doesn’t mean it won’t be used to censor people the next.

Re: ‘I Don’t Really Want to Work for Facebook.’ Say Some Computer Science Students

#230

Post by sjg007 »

nemild wrote: post #210
sjg007 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chomsky talks about this.

Any chance you know the pieces where he most focuses on this?

Here's a summary post:

https://medium.com/@wtfmitchel/the-political-nature-of-indus...

I guess I would read some of his books: Profit over People and the one on Media. He has a 1997 talk at northeastern on youtube where he addresses it a bit during question time.

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