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Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

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Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#321

Post by toomuchtodo »

thr0waway392 wrote: post #320
toomuchtodo wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if the economics don't work for Uber, they won't work for anybody else at scale either. Uber has no other profit center to prop it up. Everyone else has profitable businesses to lean on (Tesla, Waymo) or corporate backing (Lyft through GM) until they get to the finish line. If you bet on Uber as an investment, you bet on the wrong horse.

Says the guy who owns Tesla shares and always talks about Uber being terrible in every Uber thread. Basically, you make these posts because it's the only company that worries you because it threatens your financial position.

I post Uber news because I'm fascinated by the death spiral. It is literally a dumpster fire of investor money investors continue to pour money into with no hope of ever seeing a return. It's illogical! I mention Uber being terrible when I do because their actions have been legitimately illegal and immoral. I have a strong moral compass, and abhor the abuse of both workers and customers perpetuated by Uber.

Do I feel bad for Uber employees who have worthless options or exercised stock? Unfortunately not. Do I think they'll ever reach any semblance of vehicle autonomy before they exhaust their runway? I think it's overwhelmingly clear that isn't the case.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#322

Post by malandrew »

beaconstudios wrote: post #63

what the fuck is going on when a company can lose over $1 billion a quarter with no profit in sight and still receive further investment? Would they be hugely profitable if not for reinvestment in expansion and R&D?

How much do you think is being spent on Eats, Freight, Elevate and ATG? If that figure is more than $1 billion a quarter, the answer is yes.

How much does Cruise or Waymo burn per quarter? That might give us an idea of the ATG part. How much does Convoy burn? That might give us the Freight parts. No clue how we might estimate Elevate and Eats.

That said, it's worth looking at how Amazon is doing overseas these days:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/03/19/why-amazon-is-stil...

This is why growth abroad matters:

https://www.gapminder.org/fw/income-mountains/

Everyone bloviating with their personal ridesharing anecdotes is missing the bigger picture.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#323

Post by swozey »

dschep wrote: post #50
swozey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as I don't ever have to deal with a cabbie lying to me that his credit card machine doesn't work or they won't drive a short distance I will happily continue using the apps, even if the vehicles have gotten worse (most of my rides lately have been Minivans obviously bought to cab in). That still gives me a much better experience than dealing with their bullshit.

Cabbie drivers lying about their credit card machine is a moot point if your jurisdiction has a decent regulatory body. In DC if they pull that shit, I just get out with out paying as they're not abiding by the law and the dept of for hire vehicles will have my back.

Last time I had this happen (probably happened 50+ times in my life) it was in Miami and the guy didn't tell me till he got me to the mall, maybe a 5-10 min drive. I told him if he expected cash only he should've told me when I got in at the hotel and not after I pulled out my card. I hopped out and the guy left his car parked in the valet and started following and shouting at me that I need to pay him for his service through the mall.

No idea how strict Miami is on this stuff but I didn't really have time to dig into regulations and make phone calls 2 hours before a wedding while I've got some asshole shouting at me and being aggressive. I remember joking to myself "great, my phones dead so I can't Lyft, bet I'll have a great cab experience."

That was the last time I ever took a cab.

edit: Seems pervasive; https://www.yelp.com/biz/crown-taxi-miami

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#324

Post by addicted »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #58

That is not a happy balance sheet. They have raised over $24B, then they shifted around the cap table when Soft Bank came in[1] where they valued the company at $48B. I have never played poker where the lowest valued chips were a million dollars but it has to feel like that to senior management at the company right? And their investors, they have serious money in the pot too. It feels like they have managed to create…

The Softbank investment might kill Uber, IMO.

Softbank is invested in many cab apps over the world. They already had Uber pull out of at least one country where Softbank also owned a competitors.

Softbank could benefit from being invested in Uber even if they don't make any money off their investment.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#325

Post by askafriend »

KidComputer wrote: post #160
askafriend wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cabs are: * Much lower quality cars (torn seats, smelly, old, safety issues...no one looks good showing up to a date in a Cab). * Much lower quality drivers (some smoke openly, talk on the phone loudly, don't listen to you, take longer routes than necessary, etc) * No accountability for service * No trip data for safety reasons * No handy log of all your recent trips * More expensive + tip required * Sometimes will p…

Thanks for the ancedata, my personal ancedata for many years of living in NYC is: Cabs: * Cars regulated by state. * Usually cheaper than Uber rides (in my experience always). * Know the city like the back of their hand. * Can file a complaint directly with the state or cab company. * Accountable through a taxi license. * Won't defraud you with bogus cleaning fees. Uber: * Been in two minor car accidents due to drive…

Here's the difference.

For all the issues you had with Uber or Lyft. You can contact them and they'll refund you your ride. They've refunded my ride every time something bad has happened.

Cab driver hits on your girlfriend? Good luck doing anything about it.

Same situation happens in a Lyft or Uber? You get your money back and the driver's rating gets lowered or they get kicked off the platform and you get unmatched permanently from that driver in the marketplace.

Cab driver takes a selfish route? Good luck proving it.

Uber driver takes a bad route? It's logged, and easily reportable. You'll get your money back.

Uber/Lyft drivers also commonly have chargers, water bottles, and other amenities and are generally accommodating because they know their rating matters. Cab drivers don't care at all.

I've even had cab dispatchers promise a cab will be at my house at X time, and I've had several drivers just not show up with no notice, no warning, nothing. Uber driver cancels? I know immediately.

As a customer, it's a far superior experience in nearly every way - even in cases when things go wrong. I'll pay more every time to take Uber/Lyft over a Cab, and so will my 20s/30s friend group - we'll do it happily because the world is changing and Uber/Lyft are more in line with what we expect from a car service in 2018.

Not only that - it's a similar experience I can get in LA as in NYC as in SF as in my small hometown. They all have Uber/Lyft and I can call the services from any curb at any time right through my smartphone and it works reliably with similar systems of accountability and trip reporting. It makes business travel and expensing dead easy.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#326

Post by manigandham »

dyeje wrote: post #279
segmondy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not having the driver's phone number is good. Can you imagine passengers calling drivers and harassing them for whatever reason? It will happen. Should the driver drive for free to return your jacket? What if the driver is already en route to another passenger and they told the passenger 5 minutes, and your cost will be additional 10 minutes. Do you think another passenger will understand and be forgiving that…

> Well, not having the driver's phone number is good. Can you imagine passengers calling drivers and harassing them for whatever reason? It will happen. I'm pretty sure you can get their number if you call them via the app during the drive.

Uber has started implementing their own exchange board so you're actually contacting them through a virtual number.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#327

Post by xster »

Androider wrote: post #30

Uber doesn't have much of a moat or lock-in effect. I just switched one day from being a frequent Uber rider to 100% using Lyft, simply because I don't like Uber's behavior as a company. The prices are so close it doesn't make any practical difference to me. Anecdotally, among my friends I also see Lyft becoming the default, and sometimes price-checking with Uber. If Waymo or whoever came out tomorrow with a cheaper/…

They have different company culture for now but at the end of the day, the business practice dictates direction and I don't think there's anything fundamentally different with Lyft.

Their rides are both VC subsidized and unsustainable. They both punish customer loyalty. My wife and I rotate hiring rideshares. If one of us books too many, one person's fare becomes much costlier than the other. They're both godsends when initially disrupting markets (our Egyptian Uber driver definitely took a lot of personal risks engaging in shouting matches against street touts who were throwing themselves at the car and ready to drag us out so we spend our money at their shops) but once they reach semi-duopoly status in mature markets like the Bay Area, more and more crappy things happen. Things like drivers canceling you after 10 minutes or people using GPS spoofers to pick up rides while not even in the same county. And you clearly see both companies, over the years, trying to hide ways to get problems resolved behind more and more layers of circular forms labyrinths.

I've been taking more traditional taxies to keep the balance of power competitive (and because it's sometimes less frustrating).

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#328

Post by babesh »

SomewhatLikely wrote: post #305
babesh wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if the end result is a duopoly. The two need only stop competing and raise prices. It will be hard for a third entrant to come in because of the large cost to enter markets. The only viable entrant is, as mentioned Waymo, because driverless cars alters the economics and because they have the tech.

I thought this for a while but I'm pretty sure I was wrong. When thinking about all these services that exist I didn't understand how divers would stay busy: Uber, Lyft, Uber eats, Amazon restaurants, doordash, GrubHub, etc. Then I realized they actually reinforce each other because all divers can work for all the services. So they don't have to wait around for an Amazon restaurants order to come in, they'll just do…

Uber is betting that it will consolidate all that. Always give it's drivers something to do: food delivery, package delivery?, transportation, etc....

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#329

Post by xanderjanz »

jbhatab wrote: post #226

Nothing reminds me how out of loop the Hacker News and Silicone Valley is from the rest of the America like an Uber post. It always degrades into an anecdotal competition on who had the worst experience with Uber and how amazing Lyft has been. The fact that they are growing 38% in a quarter at their scale and we're calling that 'slow' is pretty nuts. Personally I've had good and bad experiences with both, but almost…

underrated post.

Re: Uber Revenue Slows as Quarterly Loss Surges to $1.1B

#330

Post by megy »

Androider wrote: post #30

Uber doesn't have much of a moat or lock-in effect. I just switched one day from being a frequent Uber rider to 100% using Lyft, simply because I don't like Uber's behavior as a company. The prices are so close it doesn't make any practical difference to me. Anecdotally, among my friends I also see Lyft becoming the default, and sometimes price-checking with Uber. If Waymo or whoever came out tomorrow with a cheaper/…

Nor does google.
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