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NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

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Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#151

Post by kodablah »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

Disagree. The freedom for a community to spend funds in ways they want is much more free than the opposite. Also disagree with your bottom line. In many cases (e.g. ones where abatements were given in my community) it lowered the tax rate over time.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#152

Post by krschultz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #71
boomka wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who you are referring to as NYC, but citizens of USA as a whole are worse off. Pitting one USA municipality against another to extract subsidy for what Amazon would do anyways is just another mechanism for wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.

> to extract subsidy for what Amazon would do anyways I don't think they would. Big infrastructure in New York is expensive, financially and politically. Without Amazon's pressure, there is no way the new campus would have been developed, hooked up and approved as quickly as it has been.

No way? Google will have nearly as many employees as Amazon in NYC and as far as I know they didn't get special subsidizes.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#153

Post by nerdponx »

Spooky23 wrote: post #134
CPLX wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

NYC needs more diversity outside of finance. This potentially puts NYC on top for retail again. I think incentives and payments for this purpose is a meh idea, it if you’re going to do it, bet on a winner.

Imagine giving $48,000 to 25,000 small business owners over 10 years instead.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#154

Post by SomeHacker44 »

As a born and long time NYC resident... I am so unhappy about this, I cannot even tell you. Why can't we put $2B in the MTA's pocket? Or schools? Or healthcare? Or affordable housing? Or almost anything other than Bezos's pocket?

I did vote against Cuomo even as I helped flip our one NYC Republican district to Democrat, so I did everything I could as a voter.

We need a law/constitutional amendment preventing this sort of thing. Companies are abusing governments with these tactics and deals. I was also against our government's subsidies of the two NYC stadiums (Yankees and Mets) and arena (Nets).

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#155

Post by lallysingh »

NoblePublius wrote: post #138
chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

Are these software jobs? I don't know if they'll be attracting more people in such a tight labor market, or just bumping up rates for those who already here.

There's plenty of unfulfilled demand for software engineers in NY, what does Amazon offer to add to supply?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#156

Post by chiefalchemist »

NoblePublius wrote: post #138
chiefalchemist wrote: post #131

Let's be clear, the free market this is not. It's yet another perfect example of government gone wild. It's one thing for to use taxpayer monies to create jobs and job opportunity (i.e., education). That's a reasonable expectation within the scope of gov's governing. However, it's another thing for gov to buy jobs - and thus votes - by effectively subsidizing some mega-corporation. If Amazon needs money, that's what…

Literally the opposite. The tax gains out number the tax breaks 3 to 1. Each one of these $150k jobs will net NY state $13.8k of income tax per year and (at least) $2500 of sales tax. The tax break per job is $4800 per year (the $48k figure you may have seen is over ten years).

Gains? From more road repair? Higher housing costs (read: more welfare state). Other services? Etc. Etc. Etc. You're making it sound like there's only upside.

Regardless, the gov should not be in the job buying biz. My gawd, they struggle to govern, and that's their job. Pockets are being lined - once again - at the expense of the tax payers.

"Each one of these $150k jobs..." Pardon me, I know this type of reply is frowned upon on HN, but...wanna buy a bridge?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#157

Post by kodablah »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

> How about instead, Cuomo gives me and any other startup founder who's been in Brooklyn or Queens for decades $48,000 for every job we've created, and we tell Amazon to go fuck themselves.

Why don't you use your leverage as a job creator to go to a town and get similar benefits since clearly you will bring the same level of benefits to that town? Or do you recognize your lack of mobility and limited investment in your town may result in a less favorable negotiating position. It's like wondering why a used car dealer gave a better deal to someone w/ a better trade in.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#158

Post by woolvalley »

CPLX wrote: post #85
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

I beg to differ. New York City doesn't have a problem attracting jobs. Like not even a little bit. The idea that this is actually incremental revenue for the city is extremely debatable. New York City is a really big place. Midtown is the largest central business district in the country, and Lower Manhattan is the third largest, after Chicago. There are 1,700,000 jobs in Manhattan alone and 3,900,000 in New York City…

So if the numbers are so small, why does it matter that this tax deal exists then.

I think most of the hate is fueled by emotional anger at the rich due to increasing inequality in the USA, even though this investment in NYC is a positive for it when you look at it rationally.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#160

Post by jowiar »

vdnkh wrote: post #32

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given. 2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not. 3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and te…

Re: 3/5.

We already have ways to turn corporate money into community services. They're called taxes. I'd much rather we as as a community take Amazon's money and build our own schools rather than have Amazon build an Amazon Education Facility and thank them for their time.

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