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NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

fox5ny.com

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Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#31

Post by metildaa »

chrisseaton wrote: post #15
metildaa wrote: post #5

Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by gentrification, Berlin has shown a good example of how to block uninvited expansion by tech giants: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538

> Perhaps the citizens should object Perhaps they like the idea?

Don't presume consent or support based on lack of vocal opposition. Queens isn't as high income as Seattle or the part of Virginia that Amazon is in, and the people who live there may just be making ends meet, not paying attention to how gentrification of their neighborhood may eject them from it.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#32

Post by vdnkh »

1) Incentives are not given up front. They are given proportional to the results Amazon has achieved. Amazon must make a report each year detailing their progress before any award is given.

2) The city-level incentives are available to any business. State-level incentives (I think 300m) are not.

3) Amazon has pledged to invest in the local community as part of the deal. There are plans for an elementary school and tech education center.

4) The NYC tech sector is more diverse than SV. 47% of tech workers in NYC are immigrants [0]. Is there any evidence supporting the claim that Amazon will ship in majority groups to displace minorities or immigrants?

5) There is direct investment in tech education for minority groups in the city [1]. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that they will receive a chunk of these jobs in the future. If you support increased diversity in tech, it is inconsistent in your beliefs to not support 25k more tech jobs in NYC.

6) LIC built almost 2.8k rental units last year. [2] I think they have built 6k this year so far. 28k units were built city-wide last year [3]

Please tell me what about this is bad.

[0] https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/our-immigrant-population... [1] https://codenation.org/ [2]https://licpost.com/long-island-city-had-more-housing-units-... [3] https://www.wsj.com/articles/amenities-war-breaks-out-in-lon...

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#33

Post by School-Cotton »

metildaa wrote: post #5

Perhaps the citizens should object, I hear one of their congress critters is shitposting on twitter to that end. If the locals don't want their lives upended by gentrification, Berlin has shown a good example of how to block uninvited expansion by tech giants: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45971538

Isn't freedom great? Berlin can decide it doesn't want tech expansion, and New York can decide it does.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#34

Post by e1ven »

lostlogin wrote: post #18
rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

But wouldn’t many of those people have lived there and paid taxes anyway?

If they leave other jobs to work for AWS, presumably the jobs they have now will need to be filled by someone else.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#35

Post by del82 »

Roritharr wrote: post #2

This is like House of Cards levels of evil. So good at playing this evil game that I can't help but respect this move of skullduggery.

How? I mean, you can argue against tax incentives for corporations, but you can also argue for them. For example, you could say (as others in this thread have) that $48k per job over 10 years is a good investment, and will likely generate much more than that in economic activity. How is it evil?

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#36

Post by bwb »

These posts seem to always miss the big picture... like what do they get back in payroll taxes and other perks? How many other companies is this going to bring into the local eco-system over the next 20 years. What does this do to the local real estate and the increase in property taxes?

If you were running a business and you had a client that had 25,000 seats, would you give them a discount to become a marquee client that could take your business to the next level? Why are cities any different?

Is the end goal of the city to have a higher GDP and better services for the people living in it, or something else? In the USA it seems like the only conversation happening in politics is GDP.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#37

Post by britch »

AlimJaffer wrote: post #8
noer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One time cost paid over 10 years, IIRC

This doesn't necessarily sound terrible? If most of the jobs are going to be 6-figures, their tax rates will be reasonably high + they'll be contributing to the local economy in terms of buying goods and services. Am I missing something?

I'm inclined to agree. I'm against it in principle (why should taxpayers be subsidizing large corporations at all?) but it isn't robbery.

I guess it get fuzzier when you factor in in harder to quantify costs like further increasing the cost of living.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#38

Post by vdnkh »

praneshp wrote: post #19
amoitnga wrote: post #6

It implies only negative, doesn't it also has a lot of positive to it, like economic growth?

Well, each NYC resident pays 48000 one time to get back 30000 per year for 10 years is not something that HN would upvote into the front page.

> each NYC resident pays 48000 one time

Please cite a source which states this claim. Nobody here is forking over 48k "one-time".

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#39

Post by crispyporkbites »

ajiang wrote: post #24

We should never accept standalone numbers. They are incredibly deceptive and don't tell the whole story. 1. What is the return that NY is going to get from increased tax revenue? 2. What is the time period that $48,000 is going to be "paid out" over? 3. How many jobs does this bring to NY? What's the average salary of those jobs? Context is king, but doesn't make for sensational headlines.

You're either for it or against it. Stop wasting time with questions and pick a side!

Alternatively I will engage with you on personal / ad hominem attacks for as much as you like.

Re: NY state tax break is $48k per Amazon HQ job

#40

Post by anonyppppp »

rb808 wrote: post #7

This is such a great deal for NYC As the article says, they give up $1.5B over 10 years, but then get "Projected incremental tax revenue of more than $10 billion over 20 years." I dont know where that comes from but the payroll and property taxes paid by 25k employees dwarves the incentives. The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast. That is invaluable. EDIT: I wonder if NYC…

"The most important part is it cements NYC as the main tech center on the East Coast."

This has long ago been cemented...

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