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I Used to Be Homeless

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Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#231

Post by Nomentatus »

Kalium wrote: post #212
Nomentatus wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I choose one out of the many, and it doesn't have to be every day - or every week; and I do this only when I have some real time to spend to talk, in case a conversation gets deep, which can happen and is a good thing. At least a third of the time I bring say cherries or a couple of bananas (scurvy from Vitamin C deficiency is not uncommon for homeless people.) The food donations would be more common except that I do…

Have you ever seen Schindler's List? There's a scene, near the end, where Oskar Schindler breaks down. He looks at all the little luxuries in his life, tallies their cost, and lists off how many more lives that could have saved . It nearly destroys him. To Schindler, "I have no moral obligation to do the impossible" would have come off as a self-serving rationalization for not doing as much as you can. For all that,…

If you read carefully you will find that I have argued for doing as much as you can sustain doing. (I have edited slightly to make that clearer, now.) At the same time, unlike yourself, I thought it a best marketing practice to encourage people to get started with good actions, not to sell them on saintliness immediately. "First get a yes," as salesmen say. Perhaps that seems like a bitter trick to you, but Aristotle advises that establishing the habit of good action takes time.

Also remember, you don't know my circumstances - I'm trying hard not to use a wheelchair now, for example, so I may not be as active as you. I'm not young. Kudos if your charity can be relentless.

So do note that my argument was a limited one, I was arguing in favor of at least some action, not trying to define ceilings other than what you can sustain doing. Which, as it turns out, over time - is actually the greatest possible effort one could offer.

Not to mention that homeless people are but one possible focus for charity so I can't accept your apparent insistence that I should devote all my energy to them exclusively; I spend far more time and effort trying to help the severely chronically ill in my own way and am not willing to give that up. If only because chronic illness often leads to homelessness.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#232

Post by chaostheory »

ben509 wrote: post #202
chaostheory wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was homeless for less than a year. In my experience, it was easy to meet basic needs when you have friends, government programs, and non-profits i.e. strangers will not realize that you are homeless. It wasn't pleasant, but it was also not impossible to no longer be homeless relatively quickly due to the same sources of help. Past research backs up my experience. Most homeless people (approx 80-90% of the homeless…

In a very narrow sense, that "hot potato" game could work. After all, there are different opportunities and cultures in every place, so for hard cases moving around might be how they finally find the place that works for them.

It only works for the non-chronic homeless. It does not work with the mentally ill. All it does is temporarily redistribute the problem

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#233

Post by RobertRoberts »

jawnv6 wrote: post #180
megaman8 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF just passed 300 million/year measure that's supposed to help the homeless and that's in addition to the 240 million/year of funding that's already there. Both of those combined exceeds the budgets of most cities. First I would say, let's figure out how to use that money so that it's actually working. 540 million/year is enough to give the 7000 homeless in SF 77,000$ per year. Let's put that to good use and make su…

Using the point-in-time count as a divisor for the entire budget is so ridiculously asinine I'm shocked so many folks are engaging with it in good faith. "Let's figure out how to use that money" might begin with understanding how it's already spent. Here's a more in depth article correcting this fallacy: http://beyondchron.org/sfs-homeless-spending-myth/ “Since the 1980’s, the media has created an impression—now shar…

A vital figure is missing from the article, how many people are actually being housed with that budget?

If it's 10k people, that is $16,500 per person (ignoring administrative costs). So that is pretty damn effective budgeting. (roughly)

But, it's 1k people that is $165,000 a person, which is piss poor.

So just shouting down someone else that is missing a few numbers is pointless without all the numbers. You may end up agreeing with their sentiment if you find the end results are the same. (ie, possibly the budget is going to rich land owners pockets instead of actually helping more people)

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#234

Post by Nomentatus »

nickff wrote: post #229
Nomentatus wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In S.F and Vancouver, the city can't expand in most directions thanks to salt water. Therefore, the old buildings tend to be razed, in order to make room for a new buildings. This is a stark contrast to say, Houston or Calgary.

Up until this year, Vancouver had one of the highest proportions of single-family-housing zoning (over 60%). Vancouver is one of the worst cases of restricted (low-density) development in North America. Vancouver's housing problems are political, not geographical.

They're both, I have lived in Van. The politics aren't great there, but they were actually worse in prairie cities I've lived in. It's just that the geography prevented old buildings from being replaced so frequently in cities that were able to expand in every direction, which helped the poor quite inadvertently, yet considerably.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#235

Post by darpa_escapee »

wjossey wrote: post #170
darpa_escapee wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of homelessness is caused by economic issues like the loss of a job, lack of sufficient income, lack of affordable housing and domestic violence. I did some work for an Australian charity that works with the homeless, so I have this graphic[1] on hand. Here's a relevant graphic for the US[4]. The top three obstacles to obtaining permanent housing in SF are lack of affordability, unemployment and lack of…

Thanks for taking the time to provide background data. This is all really great. I'm skeptical of the percentages you shared, not because I think people are liars, but that rooting out causative effects is complex, especially in self-reported cases. I have an aunt who was homeless for the better part of a decade. If you had spoken to her during this period of time about why she was homeless, she would have said many…

Research that goes beyond self-reports echoes the sentiment that homelessness is overwhelmingly an economic issue. That's not to understate the impact that health, substance abuse and domestic violence play, either.

This is important to recognize, because families are falling victim to homelessness due to loss of jobs, insufficient income and the rising cost of living.

You could probably shake a few alcoholics out of that population, just like you could with the general population, but the overwhelming majority of them became homeless because of economic reasons. Those reasons, from here[1], include lack of affordable housing, unemployment, poverty, and low wages, in that order.

I have an uncle that became homeless after his divorce. It's a hole anyone can fall into if just the right bad things happen.

There's plenty of research available. I implore anyone who is reading this to Google "causes of homelessness", or start here[2] and continue researching by checking out the citations.

[1] https://www.nlchp.org/documents/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#236

Post by SilasX »

jawnv6 wrote: post #180
megaman8 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SF just passed 300 million/year measure that's supposed to help the homeless and that's in addition to the 240 million/year of funding that's already there. Both of those combined exceeds the budgets of most cities. First I would say, let's figure out how to use that money so that it's actually working. 540 million/year is enough to give the 7000 homeless in SF 77,000$ per year. Let's put that to good use and make su…

Using the point-in-time count as a divisor for the entire budget is so ridiculously asinine I'm shocked so many folks are engaging with it in good faith. "Let's figure out how to use that money" might begin with understanding how it's already spent. Here's a more in depth article correcting this fallacy: http://beyondchron.org/sfs-homeless-spending-myth/ “Since the 1980’s, the media has created an impression—now shar…

The only thing "dangerously ignorant" is giving someone a free place to live on top of the most expensive real estate in the world, merely because they threaten they might be on the street instead of moving somewhere cheaper like everyone else.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#237

Post by magic_beans »

elliekelly wrote: post #166
technobabble wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speek for the parent poster. I don't feel comfortable giving money, so instead I offer to get them something at a local restaraunt, or try to give them some of my food if I have it on me. In some (but not all) circumstances, I've been told to "f!ck off" and "suck a c!ck" becaue they want money, presumably for drugs/alcohol/etc. Again this is my experience. Your mileage may vary.

I don't give money to homeless people for the same reason. The occasional rude responses can absolutely be frustrating but I think it helps (and is very difficult) to try to put yourself in the shoes of someone suffering from addiction. There's a homeless man in my neighborhood named Kevin that I chat with most mornings when I walk my dog. He goes to a methadone clinic to help treat his addiction. I usually see him w…

I wish there were more kind, sane people like you on HN. Some commenters in this thread really lack empathy :(

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#238

Post by bllguo »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #222
marnett wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's discriminatory against the poor, not the homeless

I've been poor most of my life. It's not discriminatory against the poor at all. I lived in a van with my wife, and we didn't steal. There were people in the parks that would steal, and the police would come after them, not us. I speak from life experience. You are helping spread a deadly lie. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Go be genuinely poor, it's really easy to do. Just use a tiny amount of money to live o…

You seem to be taking this personally. I don't see how your personal experiences address the claim that the poor are disproportionately inclined to commit petty crimes

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#239

Post by darpa_escapee »

nouveaux wrote: post #213
milesvp wrote: post #145

This article reminded me of a childhood experience of mine. At some point when I was in high school my dad brought home a homeless man to live in our house. At first it seemed weird, but I understood that we were in a position to help so I got over the feeling that our family was different for helping someone from the street. Then it started to feel weird that this guy completely bunkered down in his room. The few ti…

It would be great if you and your family elaborate more on this experience through an AMA and/or blog post?

Sharing an experience like this would definitely help bring awareness and empathy to the cause.

OP's parents and the man they hosted should consider if reaching out to someone about their story would be something they'd like to do.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#240

Post by toasterlovin »

Nomentatus wrote: post #228
toasterlovin wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now try your sentence with "what black people do" or any other group, and see how it make you feel. So if I have a problem with people who drive drunk, my concerns are invalid because, if I replaced the category “drunk drivers” with “black people” in statements I make about the societal harms caused by drunk drivers, it would come across as racist? Also, nice try on the “not all homeless” trick, but I’m already hip…

Any classification that's actually defined by behavior, such as "drive drunk" as opposed to "streetpeople" is perfectly fine by me, as I think would be obvious. Both streetpeople and homeless are highly heterogeneous groups, so I don't think this affects my point. Which is that your one-to-one mapping is literally stereotyping. Just back off a little, so that you're only complaining about those you're really angry at…

Do you have a preferred term for the people I am trying to refer to? Specifically, the people who live in public spaces and visit mayhem upon the surrounding community? I am asking honestly. Such a term would be very useful in furthering the discussion around the “homeless”. That was my intention in using the term “street people”.

Also, “street people” is a class that is defined by behavior. They are people who live in public spaces.

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