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I Used to Be Homeless

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Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#201

Post by Nomentatus »

toasterlovin wrote: post #72
megaman8 wrote: post #48

To live in, In SF. your choices are a 1.5 million dollar condo or a 50$ dollar tent. Seriously people, we need to allow for more choices than that. I'm sure builders and entrepreneurs would line up around the block to build solutions that are cheaper and more cost effective, but you first have to make it legal (get rid of the mountains of regulations and zoning headaches that make this problem so insurmountable), wit…

FWIW, people who have a problem with street people are largely not concerned with people living in unconventional shelters (such as tents and cardboard boxes). They're concerned with what street people do . Drug use, syringes left on the ground, shit and piss everywhere, piles of trash, theft, vandalism, etc.

Now try your sentence with "what black people do" or any other group, and see how it make you feel. You forgot to put in "a minority of." The street people you see (many of which aren't homeless) are a minority compared to the homeless (some of whom pick up litter) who stay mostly out of sight, sleep out of sight, aren't practiced beggars.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#202

Post by ben509 »

chaostheory wrote: post #174
TallGuyShort wrote: post #76

Question for the author or anyone else with similar background: I've previously done a lot of work with homeless and poverty-stricken people, and one of my biggest remaining difficulties is people who won't accept help, or are offended when people only do little things to help. Part of that certainly could come from any drug or mental issue that contributed to their homelessness in the first place, but I'm sure it's…

I was homeless for less than a year. In my experience, it was easy to meet basic needs when you have friends, government programs, and non-profits i.e. strangers will not realize that you are homeless. It wasn't pleasant, but it was also not impossible to no longer be homeless relatively quickly due to the same sources of help. Past research backs up my experience. Most homeless people (approx 80-90% of the homeless…

In a very narrow sense, that "hot potato" game could work.

After all, there are different opportunities and cultures in every place, so for hard cases moving around might be how they finally find the place that works for them.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#203

Post by smileysteve »

post_break wrote: post #194
ilikehurdles wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

Do you think it has to do with generating income? Like if someone is homeless the odds of getting them to pay a fine is next to nothing. But snag a guy walking out of a bar pissing on the wall you're going to get some money out of it.

Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income.

If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addicted, and will waste that same time again.

tldr; A fine of $50 for someone who doesn't have money to eat is in ways as inconceivable as a $1bln fine to someone in the middle class.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#204

Post by post_break »

smileysteve wrote: post #203
post_break wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think it has to do with generating income? Like if someone is homeless the odds of getting them to pay a fine is next to nothing. But snag a guy walking out of a bar pissing on the wall you're going to get some money out of it.

Probably as much to do with the revolving door as it does with generating income. If you have a home / money, a fine or brief jail time are punishment. If you don't have home / money, you won't pay a fine, your time and lack of freedom won't solve an addiction brought on by being desolate. So, a month later, a cop has wasted hours, a judge has wasted hours, and the "criminal" still can't pay the fine, is still addict…

Sorry I don't understand your comment?

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#205

Post by Nomentatus »

megaman8 wrote: post #63
codydh wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of your "regulation free zone" will likely be measured in human lives. Does that seem like an acceptable risk?

That's just in the beginning. Not every regulation saves lives - some are just on the books to protect rent seeking entities and lobbyists, and some are just there because they've always been there.

"Regulatory theater" with many laws, almost no money for enforcement, and small penalties that are never updated for inflation seems very common to me.

Fewer, well-chosen regulations with very strong penalties that easily pay for strict enforcement activity - that's much rarer; and I'm cynical enough about how gets to influence lawmakers, that I know why that is.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#206

Post by Nomentatus »

jaredklewis wrote: post #68
diablerouge wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underestimating the real estate market. A significant reason new developments cost so much is that the land they are built upon costs so much. For example, in Portland Oregon, where I live, most new developments are being built on expensive real estate in central areas. As a result the apartments built there, even if they aren't particularly nice, end up going for high amounts. This is due to non-physi…

I have friends in Tokyo renting 1 bedrooms in the city center for $500 ~ $900 month. Those buildings were not built as affordable housing. They became affordable housing when other developers built newer, nicer buildings somewhere else in Tokyo. Older buildings had to lower prices to keep tenants coming. Unless there is a literally infinite supply of rich people, I don’t see how increasing supply cannot create more a…

In S.F and Vancouver, the city can't expand in most directions thanks to salt water. Therefore, the old buildings tend to be razed, in order to make room for a new buildings. This is a stark contrast to say, Houston or Calgary.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#207

Post by kakarot »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #157
jl2718 wrote: post #129

I was homeless in Silicon Valley many years ago. There were a lot of ‘us’. We stayed hidden in the woods, bathed often, and dressed impeccably in public. Some had jobs. Some were grad students. Several couples. There were no drugs, alcohol, beggars, or thieves out there. $5/day was enough. It was hard physically, but very spiritual, financially free, and altogether one of the best times of my life. Today it’s too dan…

This is so on point. I can not stand how little the police does to address the entirely open air drug sales and use, indecent exposure, and plethora of public safety issues (shattered glass bottles, prostitution, trespassing, selling stolen goods like bicycles) because the perpetrators are homeless. I’m not saying punish homelessness, I’m saying enforce existing laws regardless of who the perps are.

This is a complicated issue because the Drug War is inherently discriminatory, and asking for our government to enforce these laws will always lead to discriminatory practices. All of the other issues definitely need to be addressed, however.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#208

Post by virmundi »

yesenadam wrote: post #199
virmundi wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I’ve just been here for a while. If you take the conversations on HN and put the them through a Bayesian Network, you can tell as soon as “deregulation” appears, the conversation will take a turn for “people will die” worse.

"Nope."? You're missing my point. I'm not saying you're not right about that, but that being so condescending and snarky is unacceptable on here, whether you're right or not, and however the person you're replying to spoke to you.

Then ban me for using colloquialisms. I'd frankly love it. Flag the comment, "He said something in a way I don't agree with. Also, if you checkout his comment history, he fails to use the Oxford Comma. That has to be worth something!"

Also, you don't need to include the period when you're quoting me. "Nope"? is valid too.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#209

Post by toasterlovin »

Nomentatus wrote: post #201
toasterlovin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, people who have a problem with street people are largely not concerned with people living in unconventional shelters (such as tents and cardboard boxes). They're concerned with what street people do . Drug use, syringes left on the ground, shit and piss everywhere, piles of trash, theft, vandalism, etc.

Now try your sentence with "what black people do" or any other group, and see how it make you feel. You forgot to put in "a minority of." The street people you see (many of which aren't homeless) are a minority compared to the homeless (some of whom pick up litter) who stay mostly out of sight, sleep out of sight, aren't practiced beggars.

> Now try your sentence with "what black people do" or any other group, and see how it make you feel.

So if I have a problem with people who drive drunk, my concerns are invalid because, if I replaced the category “drunk drivers” with “black people” in statements I make about the societal harms caused by drunk drivers, it would come across as racist?

Also, nice try on the “not all homeless” trick, but I’m already hip to that particular rhetorical maneuver. As such, I didn’t use that term. I used “street people” because I am specifically referring to all of the people who are living in public spaces in broad daylight.

Re: I Used to Be Homeless

#210

Post by Nomentatus »

ravenstine wrote: post #38

> Homeless people are not going to kill you I understand a lot of the insight this person has provided us about homelessness, but I beg to differ on this point, and I'm sure it's location dependent. I currently live in Santa Monica, and the vast majority of the homeless here clearly either have substance abuse problems or mental illness(I'm sure it's often both at once). I've had countless instances where a homeless…

There are certainly scary homeless people; psychopathy is one of many reasons one might become homeless. But beware of publication bias - mentally ill homeless people are far more likely to draw your attention than either sane homeless people or someone who screams in their own living room a lot. Your well-housed neighbor isn't necessarily a lot more sane or well-behaved, and certainly not less violent I've read. Diseases of inflammation are on the rise, and depression and Schizophrenia increasingly look like brain inflammation. (These don't correlate with excess violence to others, however.)
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