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Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

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Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#21

Post by p1necone »

Someone1234 wrote: post #8
dpcx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a (probably) $6k machine that is still giving you a workable system 10 years later - doesn't that tend to suggest something?

I still have a $1.5K system doing the same. I'm pretty sure it suggests that after Moore's Law computers now last significantly longer than they used to. Only major hardware improvement in that period is Nvidia's GTX 1060/1070/1080 series graphics cards and faster PCI based SSD storage. CPUs and memory have barely moved.

I think it's just as much Intel just not having competition/incentive to improve as it is Moore's Law.

Until Ryzen forced Intel to get off their asses there was very little performance improvement generation by generation in intel processors.

For example: Over 2011 - 2017 there was a ~18% (userbenchmark) improvement in the *700 i7 model.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-2700K-vs...

But then Ryzen came out and the very next model (released in the same year) was already a ~23% improvement.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-7700-vs-...

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#22

Post by Tsiklon »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #19

Is there a technical reason why the T2 chip can't be disabled wholesale for situations like this? Obviously, this would disable features like touch ID, but that seems like an okay trade off.

As I understand it - the T2 chip is also the storage controller for the Flash storage used in these new machines, so if it were disabled you'd have to use external storage.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#24

Post by ken »

dpcx wrote: post #4
overcast wrote: post #2

Pretty much at the end of my 2008 Mac Pro rope. Along with repair-ability, the base and upgrade pricing is just getting out of control. With a high spec mac mini approaching 2k, I can only imagine what the new MacPro will end up being. I sure as hell am not spending $6000+ on one. Next machine will be a coffee lake Hackintosh, it really takes very little effort to install nowadays.

You have a (probably) $6k machine that is still giving you a workable system 10 years later - doesn't that tend to suggest something?

The 2008 Mac Pro cost only $2299: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-qua...

Even accounting for inflation, that's under $2700 today.

And the only reason my 2008 is still "workable" is because I used a third-party tool to enable me to run a recent macOS installer. Apple's official macOS installer refuses to update a 2008 Mac Pro beyond OS 10.11 (El Cap, 2015), even though the hardware is perfectly capable of running newer versions.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#25

Post by tinus_hn »

macintux wrote: post #3

> “This could be an attempt to grab more market share from the independent repair providers. Or it could be a threat to keep their authorized network in line. We just don’t know.” Good grief. "Apple adds systems integrity hardware to reduce the risk of local compromise" becomes "Apple is out to destroy your repair business" because reasons.

Well, it’s Apple so it gets clicks!

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#26

Post by dunham »

Tsiklon wrote: post #22
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #19

Is there a technical reason why the T2 chip can't be disabled wholesale for situations like this? Obviously, this would disable features like touch ID, but that seems like an okay trade off.

As I understand it - the T2 chip is also the storage controller for the Flash storage used in these new machines, so if it were disabled you'd have to use external storage.

That's interesting - are the encryption keys for the storage in a secure enclave then?

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#27

Post by 21 »

SEJeff wrote: post #23

And by blocking some third-party repairs, it is also making it harder to replace components with "backdoored" ones like the "big back" bloomberg article posted recently. These types of changes at their core are good, even if they're annoying.

If all the apple shops in the world will get that tool, you can assume anybody capable of a hardware backdoor will also have access to it and a way to use it without raising flags (presumably the tool will phone back home for authorization).

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#28

Post by fraudsyndrome »

SEJeff wrote: post #23

And by blocking some third-party repairs, it is also making it harder to replace components with "backdoored" ones like the "big back" bloomberg article posted recently. These types of changes at their core are good, even if they're annoying.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/22/aws-ceo-jassy-follows-apple-...

Apparently that was debunked.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#29

Post by ethebubbeth »

p1necone wrote: post #21
Someone1234 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still have a $1.5K system doing the same. I'm pretty sure it suggests that after Moore's Law computers now last significantly longer than they used to. Only major hardware improvement in that period is Nvidia's GTX 1060/1070/1080 series graphics cards and faster PCI based SSD storage. CPUs and memory have barely moved.

I think it's just as much Intel just not having competition/incentive to improve as it is Moore's Law. Until Ryzen forced Intel to get off their asses there was very little performance improvement generation by generation in intel processors. For example: Over 2011 - 2017 there was a ~18% (userbenchmark) improvement in the *700 i7 model. https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-2700K-vs... But then Ryzen c…

The "Ryzen forced Intel to get off their asses" portion is definitely in full effect here. It got Intel to move from 4 to 6 cores on the *700 i7 part.

However, both in the SC Mixed results on the benchmarks you linked, and in individual benchmarks at Anandtech ( https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2255?vs=2127), the single threaded results track previous generations.

Intel still had to go wide to increase performance due to competition from AMD. They didn't increase generational improvement on their individual cores.

Re: Apple’s T2 security chip blocks some third-party repairs of new Macs

#30

Post by alphabettsy »

dunham wrote: post #26
Tsiklon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it - the T2 chip is also the storage controller for the Flash storage used in these new machines, so if it were disabled you'd have to use external storage.

That's interesting - are the encryption keys for the storage in a secure enclave then?

Yea. https://www.apple.com/mac/docs/Apple_T2_Security_Chip_Overvi...
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