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Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

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Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#191

Post by nathan_f77 »

unknown_apostle wrote: post #170
nathan_f77 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also grew up in New Zealand, and it's not for me. It's great if you want to start a family and have a very quiet life. I think I might retire there if I can somehow afford a house. One of the main reasons I left is that I could never afford a house, or even the down-payment on a mortgage. If I had lots of money then New Zealand would probably be more appealing to me, but it's not a good place to earn it. I don't kn…

Thx for your reply! Housing is problematic in Auckland... half of the offered income would go to rent. About family & excitement: we have little kids, so cooking at home and not going out much will be normal for us, regardless of where we live, for many years to come :-) The wage thing is correct. Moving to NZ will cut my income by quite a bit more than 50%. But I'm fascinated with the rugged "wanting it more" vibes…

I think you're right about the "wanting it more" vibes. Maybe also related to the "number 8 wire mentality" [1], where farmers get things done with whatever they have. There are lots of amazing inventors, scientists, and explorers from New Zealand.

I think New Zealanders seem to have a really high level of empathy compared to many other countries. There are lots of non-profit organizations that do amazing work, in addition to the awesome public healthcare system. St John [2] provides free first aid and ambulance rides to everyone, and they're a charity staffed by volunteers and run on donations (they're also in Australia and the UK.)

Also ACC [3] is an amazing safety net that most people take for granted. If you are injured in an accident and can't work any more, they will take care of you for the rest of your life. (As well as universal healthcare, we also have universal no-fault accident insurance.) We have a family friend who suffered severe brain damage in a car accident over 20 years ago. They're unable to work, and ACC is still giving them 80% of their salary (adjusted for inflation), so they are able to stay in a nice home with qualified caregivers.

So it's a pretty awesome country. It's just a bit quiet, very expensive, and the tech salaries are not very competitive.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_8_wire

[2] https://www.stjohn.org.nz

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_Compensation_Corporat...

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#192

Post by nathan_f77 »

lostlogin wrote: post #178
nathan_f77 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also grew up in New Zealand, and it's not for me. It's great if you want to start a family and have a very quiet life. I think I might retire there if I can somehow afford a house. One of the main reasons I left is that I could never afford a house, or even the down-payment on a mortgage. If I had lots of money then New Zealand would probably be more appealing to me, but it's not a good place to earn it. I don't kn…

Good points. > many cafes even close at 3pm That’s far too close to a black mark against NZ coffee though. The weak, lukewarm, milky liquid that is served up elsewhere is deeply depressing. The stuff I want is best not consumed late in the day.

I agree, I think the coffee and food in New Zealand is some of the best in the world. The average restaurant in Auckland is just so much better than the average restaurant in San Francisco (and many other cities I've lived in). I think there is just a really high standard in NZ, and I've had very few bad experiences at restaurants. San Francisco was like playing Russian Roulette. There's just a lot of very mediocre food. If you want to go somewhere with good reviews, you have to make a reservation well in advance, or wait in line for 2 hours. You don't have to do that so much in NZ.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#193

Post by pferde »

SEJeff wrote: post #23
pferde wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully, soon it will be "just another AZ".

How would you name that? space-west-1? Cardinal directions are sort of irrelevant.

No need to do anything complicated. Just name them leo-1, leo-2, ..., and have a page with info about the orbit path for each (visualized, as well as in e.g. keplerian elements)

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#194

Post by Gravityloss »

Kye wrote: post #78
Gravityloss wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fuel burning turbine is much more mass efficient than a lithium battery powered one. And hence also makes the whole vehicle more fuel efficient. But a turbine is much harder to develop and manufacture. Especially at small scale, the turbine is also inefficient so it has less advantage to a battery there. It wouldn't make sense to run the Falcon 9 pumps with batteries.

I wonder how a hybrid approach like they do with freight trains would work. Generate electricity with energy-dense fuel, then use that to drive electric motors.

Hard to find any energy denser fuels than the ones they already use for main propulsion.

But yes, with a hybrid one, you could decouple the rotation rate of the turbine and the pumps. They have different optimal points. Or you could have more pump stages with different speeds. Some engines use gears for this purpose (NK-33). Some engines use two turbines, one for each pump (SSME). Also startup would be nice and easy.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#195

Post by Kye »

Gravityloss wrote: post #194
Kye wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how a hybrid approach like they do with freight trains would work. Generate electricity with energy-dense fuel, then use that to drive electric motors.

Hard to find any energy denser fuels than the ones they already use for main propulsion. But yes, with a hybrid one, you could decouple the rotation rate of the turbine and the pumps. They have different optimal points. Or you could have more pump stages with different speeds. Some engines use gears for this purpose (NK-33). Some engines use two turbines, one for each pump (SSME). Also startup would be nice and easy.

>> "Hard to find any energy denser fuels than the ones they already use for main propulsion."

I phrased that poorly. I meant fuel as a class of things compared to relatively sparse batteries.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#196

Post by Gravityloss »

Kye wrote: post #195
Gravityloss wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to find any energy denser fuels than the ones they already use for main propulsion. But yes, with a hybrid one, you could decouple the rotation rate of the turbine and the pumps. They have different optimal points. Or you could have more pump stages with different speeds. Some engines use gears for this purpose (NK-33). Some engines use two turbines, one for each pump (SSME). Also startup would be nice and easy.

>> "Hard to find any energy denser fuels than the ones they already use for main propulsion." I phrased that poorly. I meant fuel as a class of things compared to relatively sparse batteries.

Ah yes. Still, Soyuz uses different fuel to drive the pumps from the main propellants. Hydrogen peroxide monopropellant for pumps, liquid oxygen and kerosene for main propellants.

This is V-2 heritage. Back then the turbine materials were not developed yet that could take the high heat.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#197

Post by djrobstep »

peterashford wrote: post #188
djrobstep wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't do it. I grew up there. Parochial, small-minded, cliquey people, all the money is in construction and farming rather than tech, poor range of jobs, low wages, and relatively expensive real estate. I moved to Australia, found more interesting work at more than double the salary. Nicer weather and more genuine people, and real multicultural culture due to truly international big cities.

"Parochial, small-minded, cliquey people" and so you moved to Australia? I don't believe you have ever met any Australians. Or New Zealanders. One or the other.

There is a small town mentality in NZ which is happily absent in the Australian big cities.

For instance, nobody in Oz has ever asked me what school I went to. I got asked that regularly in NZ by status-insecure middlebrow white people.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#198

Post by Gibbon1 »

syntaxing wrote: post #126
Gibbon1 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw a paper that examined pressure fed, turbo pumps, and electric. Electric beats both pressure fed and turbo pumps at the size Rocket Lab is targeting. At large sizes turbines beat electric but the plumbing is much more complex and technically challenging. I'm suspicious that electrics are viable for first stages where performance advantage is less important. For first stages the cost is linear with ISP. Where it'…

I would love to read that paper if you can find it! Does metal 3D printing mitigate any of these challenges? Or is the problem a packaging problem where there is a minimum size required for the mechanical parts?

> Does metal 3D printing mitigate any of these challenges?

I remember reading an interview with some NaSA engineers who were reverse engineering the F1 engines used for the Saturn V. He said notable was the amount of welded assemblies vs ones machined using 5 axis mills, and parts created via Powder Metallurgy on modern designs.

http://atlaspressedmetals.com/index.php/pm-advantages/histor...

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#199

Post by dwd »

djrobstep wrote: post #197
peterashford wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Parochial, small-minded, cliquey people" and so you moved to Australia? I don't believe you have ever met any Australians. Or New Zealanders. One or the other.

There is a small town mentality in NZ which is happily absent in the Australian big cities. For instance, nobody in Oz has ever asked me what school I went to. I got asked that regularly in NZ by status-insecure middlebrow white people.

The question you're more likely to get is what school do your kids go to. Asking a New Zealander about their school back in NZ would be meaningless. You could say Raupo primary school and no one would know.

Re: Rocket Launch in New Zealand Brings Quick, Cheap Space Access

#200

Post by wbl »

sandworm101 wrote: post #158
wbl wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ITAR restricts US parts. It does not apply to non US technology sources although Wassenar and MTCR are multilateral. It would be possible to make rockets with no ITAR covered parts. After all that's what Russia France and China have.

Russian and Chinese rockets are definitely covered by ITAR. ITAR isn't a trade barrier or patent protection. It doesn't care about national origin. It applies to all export of relevant technologies from the US. So if you imported a Russian rocket into the US, its further export would be a violation of ITAR rules regardless of where that rocket first came from.

Right, but if you are importing a Russian rocket to somewhere not US, you don't have to worry.
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