That's what you get if your governments give monopoly on making drugs to huge corporations. Patens and enormously costly "approvals" (rather than strict liability) are the root of the problem.
In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
11–20 of 102 posts
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. I've met contractors who did extensive work for businessmen in the US, who then turned around and told the contractor, "You want to be paid? Sue me!" The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Is it really that different? There are some people who are good and some people who end up being opportu…
Being Chinese myself, I can say the moral standard of normal Chinese are more bipolar than western world. Some are incredibly kind and fair. Some are incredibly immoral, who can be viewed as demon incarnations. See example like this: https://www.zhihu.com/question/53610601 (manufacture human monster slave to use as worker as fake beggar)
Some are incredibly kind and fair.
Some are incredibly immoral, who can be viewed as demon incarnations.
You can find comparable extremes in all places.
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#13>”You just hope the sellers have a conscience.” Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Dealt with our products being knocked off for years, wouldn’t want to buy cancer meds ever!
The trick would be to buy the cancer meds, then send them to another lab and have them determine what it is (without telling them in advance).
Extra points if you get the lab to quantify purity instead of just finding presence.
Lots of pharma APIs are manufactured in China or India.
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being Chinese myself, I can say the moral standard of normal Chinese are more bipolar than western world. Some are incredibly kind and fair. Some are incredibly immoral, who can be viewed as demon incarnations. See example like this: https://www.zhihu.com/question/53610601 (manufacture human monster slave to use as worker as fake beggar)
Some are incredibly kind and fair. Some are incredibly immoral, who can be viewed as demon incarnations. You can find comparable extremes in all places.
Sure, as I mention, it's more.
The example I cite here is well-knwon, and yet it exists still today.
Can you imagine western countries allow this to happen regularly?
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
They proved they have no conscience with the Chinese baby formula scandal[1]: putting melamine in baby formula to save a little money, knowing that doing so would be poisoning infant children. "A spokesman said the scale of the problem proved it was 'clearly not an isolated accident, [but] a large-scale intentional activity to deceive consumers for simple, basic, short-term profits.'" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
Who is "they"? This is a nation of almost 1.4 billion people. There are more unarmed civilians (including children) murdered by US police every year than all deaths from the Chinese milk scandal combined. Would that make it reasonable to state that "All US citizens have proved they have no conscience"? In any case, the Chinese milk scandal pales in comparison to what Nestle did: https://www.businessinsider.com/nestle…
I don't understand the complaint in that article? It seems to basically be that:
- Nestle made a baby formula
- They marketed it heavily to poor people in the third world.
- Poor people in the third world proceed to dilute the formula with more than the recommended amount of water to save money (and the article does not say that this was at Nestle's prompting), and as a result didn't feed their babies enough.
Maybe less than ideal and somewhat scummy? Sure, most advertising is like that really. Worse than literally selling poisonous baby formula? I don't see it.
But perhaps I misunderstand the accusation.
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#16>”You just hope the sellers have a conscience.” Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Dealt with our products being knocked off for years, wouldn’t want to buy cancer meds ever!
The trick would be to buy the cancer meds, then send them to another lab and have them determine what it is (without telling them in advance). Extra points if you get the lab to quantify purity instead of just finding presence. Lots of pharma APIs are manufactured in China or India.
like any drug deal, you should test the product. not exactly a cultural difference here.
this whole thing even sounds like dallas buyers club.
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#17That's what you get if your governments give monopoly on making drugs to huge corporations. Patens and enormously costly "approvals" (rather than strict liability) are the root of the problem.
I don't think we'd have 99% of these novel clinical compounds if it weren't for patents.
As for approvals, I don't know why we have each country doing its own approvals, instead of international groups that individuals can choose whether they want to trust or not. Are Europeans sufficiently different than Chinese, Indians, Australians, Canadians, Germans or Americans to warrant independent safety approvals?
If they're using different metrics to process approvals, why? Shouldn't the same inputs result in the same outputs?
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#18>”You just hope the sellers have a conscience.” Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Dealt with our products being knocked off for years, wouldn’t want to buy cancer meds ever!
Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. I've met contractors who did extensive work for businessmen in the US, who then turned around and told the contractor, "You want to be paid? Sue me!" The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Is it really that different? There are some people who are good and some people who end up being opportu…
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Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, having dealt with Chinese vendors and mfgs for years that is a scary scenario. I've met contractors who did extensive work for businessmen in the US, who then turned around and told the contractor, "You want to be paid? Sue me!" The whole culture of trust / fairness / honesty is very different from the west. Is it really that different? There are some people who are good and some people who end up being opportu…
> There are also people in the west who aren't above faking treatments for cancer. So true, here you go: https://www.dw.com/en/cancer-drug-scandal-german-pharmacist-... The free press and independent justice system makes the difference.
The free press and independent justice system makes the difference.
Those can and do make a difference. No system is perfect, however. Chinese culture has an extensive heritage of moral philosophy. Despite that, it's still been shown that it's possible to overturn the social order there with massive consequences. The west certainly isn't above that sort of chaos. France and Germany, the largest economic powers of continental Europe, have that in their history. The US isn't entirely above this kind of chaos, either.
The press in the west also follows a propaganda model.
https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econo...
Justice systems in the west have been known to cooperate with the authorities in miscarriages of justice, particularly in wartime or when subject to near-wartime hysteria.
When it comes down to it, there is always a struggle between good and evil in all times and places. The really tricky part of it is this: The worst evils disguise themselves as movements of good and justice. People and movements should be judged by their actions. Ask: Who is committing violence against whom? Who abets or tacitly accepts bad actions? Who is willing to call out their own side and their own tribe when they do wrong?
The left/right political spectrum ceases to have meaning when you look at it that way. The Authoritarian/Anti-authoritarian spectrum and the tribalist/universalist spectrums hold much more value.
Re: In China, Desperate Patients Smuggle Drugs or Make Their Own
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some are incredibly kind and fair. Some are incredibly immoral, who can be viewed as demon incarnations. You can find comparable extremes in all places.
Sure, as I mention, it's more. The example I cite here is well-knwon, and yet it exists still today. Can you imagine western countries allow this to happen regularly?
As time goes on, people adjust to the rule of law and societal standards. What happens in the west is that the "optics" are far better. Much of the corruption remains, however. Unfortunately, I think that's baked into reality and human nature.