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Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

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Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#91
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather have a "if you aren't in extreme pain then it's not a problem" doctor, than one who would over diagnose every minor issue.

I'd rather have a competent doctor than either of those.

And them listening to their patient is a necessary condition! A doctor who doesn’t listen to his/her patient is a red flag.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#92
post #14

Why do we keep looking for some magic pill and ignore diet and exercise, especially when we talk about cancer and cardiovascular disease? Expecting a pill to counteract a sedentary lifestyle and a diet high in sugar and carbs is lunacy.

Of course, a decade ago, the lunacy was expecting something to counteract a diet high in fat.

There's a lot of back on forth on this, and I think that while Ancel Keys was wrong, he now gets unfairly maligned a lot. Nutritional science is just hard. Here's an interesting writeup on how dietary fat became the bogeyman: https://deniseminger.com/2011/12/22/the-truth-about-ancel-ke...

(One interesting thing about the past associational studies is that many did not control for transfats, or even smoking).

I also like this Vox article from a few years ago that describes why nutritional research is so hard: https://www.vox.com/2016/1/14/10760622/nutrition-science-com...

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#93
post #85
post #34

Given these studies. I will stop taking fish oil. However, in light of further evidence by gwern as presented below, I will continue to take Vitamin D, even though my confidence in it is lessened. https://www.gwern.net/Longevity

I have my doubts on omega-3 supplementation as the amounts typically are not enough to change the omega-3:omega-6 ratios, which has been shown to have a big effect on hazard ratios for CVD. It looks like this study was for 1g of fish oil and there were no controls on dietary intake, so IMO the results aren't surprising. I'd recommend that anyone interested in the health benefits of eating healthier... look into eatin…

Algae and Fish oil bypass the preferential omega-6 metabolism - EPA & DHA are downstream metabolites, so there is no barrier.

Flax seed oil is still healthy but only for the lignans - only marine oils can effectively provide DHA and EPA. Though most commercially available products are DHA heavy, which no longer seems to be the beneficial conjugate.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diet and exercise have considerably higher costs than pills. Seems like that should be apparent. I don't see it as lunacy. Some chemicals we put into our bodies kill us, some cure our illnesses, some keep us awake or put us to sleep. It's lunacy to believe that some can benefit our health? Regardless, this isn't zero-sum. I don't think people are advocating for a pill to replace diet and exercise, but it seems obviou…

There's a cost to exercise? Walking, running, and jumping jacks are free.

It still costs time.

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#95
post #80
post #30

"At this point, if one is thinking about supplementation, either omega-3s or vitamin D, talking to your physician or healthcare provider is the next step" Does anyone actually talk to their doctor before taking a vitamin? What information could they possibly provide

My doctor's excellent on the topic. She pays a lot of attention to studies on supplements and has made recommendations and answered questions for me. The key information she provides is: Given my health history, is this likely to be useful to me? With a side of: Are there unexpected risks for me?

And what has she suggested?

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#97
In my opinion the biggest issue with meds, supplements, and health studies in general is that it's an n+1 issue. All humans are unique individual cases.

What works great for one person might not work for the majority. This doesn't mean a particular remedy or supplement should be cast aside.

Here is an example of where I wish the "health industry" would move:

https://leapsmag.com/how-bacteria-killing-viruses-may-save-u...

https://phagesdb.org/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#98
If anyone is wondering why the study results are being framed as "disappointing" to major media outlets, take a look at the disclosed financial conflicts of interest document. Lots of mysterious "consultant" fees paid out by major pharmaceutical companies who have an obvious incentive to bash any natural alternative to their drugs.

Also, the "placebo" used here was mineral oil, which has many known health benefits. Why not use some type of sugar pill? Talk about tipping the scale in favor of big pharma's desired results from the beginning. Past similar studies on fish oil (funded by big pharma) have even used an olive oil "placebo", which skews p-values even further. Imagine a weight loss study that told the placebo group to start running a mile everyday and eating healthier food....

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#99
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diet and exercise have considerably higher costs than pills. Seems like that should be apparent. I don't see it as lunacy. Some chemicals we put into our bodies kill us, some cure our illnesses, some keep us awake or put us to sleep. It's lunacy to believe that some can benefit our health? Regardless, this isn't zero-sum. I don't think people are advocating for a pill to replace diet and exercise, but it seems obviou…

There's a cost to exercise? Walking, running, and jumping jacks are free.

[deleted]

Re: Long-Awaited Study Results on Vitamin D and Fish Oil Supplements

#100
post #39

Why do we keep looking for some magic pill and ignore diet and exercise, especially when we talk about cancer and cardiovascular disease? Expecting a pill to counteract a sedentary lifestyle and a diet high in sugar and carbs is lunacy.

Show me a randomized control study of healthy people with lower all cause mortality from either diet or exercise, and I'll gladly change my ways.

Stop. Is this really how far we've come with science worship? You can take some things for granted.
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