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Apple has removed us from the App Store

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Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#111

Post by GavinMcG »

jwildeboer wrote: post #107
TimTheTinker wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pasting section 2.5.4 here: Multitasking apps may only use background services for their intended purposes: VoIP, audio playback, location, task completion, local notifications, etc. If your app uses location background mode, include a reminder that doing so may dramatically decrease battery life. Screen time inference is clearly not an intended purpose for location, since the actual location data obtained has no con…

The „etc“ is the word that turns a seemingly clear rule into an interpretation battle. Etc here could allow almost everything or nothing. Depending on what argument you want to push. Ultimately it’s Apple‘s walled garden and they have the final say.

No, it really doesn't. "Etc." just includes other services. But it's unambiguous that whatever the service, it must be used for its own sake.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#113

Post by privateSFacct »

tptacek wrote: post #35
rando444 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app has a feature that allows you to see where you are spending your time on your phone. This could be helpful to get an idea about time wasted at work vs. commuting by train or whatever. I'm not going to say it's super useful, but it has a use.. I would categorize this in the same bucket as Snapchat needing your GPS. Anyway, the complaint is that they are using this data for more than features and functionality.…

You can almost always make that claim about any sneaky use of a platform feature. The test that will be used to determine compliance is whether the intended, expected use of the feature complies, not with whether there are any compliant uses.

Exactly this. App developers are constantly saying, I need all your location data for one tiny sliver of a reason or another.

If you are a map app, location data is fine.

If you are tracking screen time, then no.

Apple's is targeting folks like my parents here. They love that apple just works, no crazy secret battery drains etc. Even the subtle prompts apple gives (the little arrow outline etc) is NOT ENOUGH for folks like my parents. It needs to follow logically from what they are doing (no buried menus / advanced features). Apple largely delivers on this. Check out an older person using an android phone with a total ton of apps (and android 3-5 years old, older folks upgrade MUCH more slowly). It's a honking mess. Seriously the battery life goes into the trash, the phone has got a billion things running on it.

Apple is making BIG money focusing pretty strictly on privacy. The idea that they are doing this to avoid competitors to screen time (which they make no extra money on) is ludicrous.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#114

Post by ryanwaggoner »

ThomPete wrote: post #98
Improvotter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I am to mine. But I don't want something tracking me in the background. If that is your business model, then you should've thought of a different one. I don't care whether you think that Apple is a protective parent or not, one protective parent please!

No no no, you go further here, you claim that people shouldnt even be able to get the service even if they wanted to, in other words you are not even recognizing the parents right to his opinion you also want to have a say in whether HE should be able to get it.

My current perspective is that I don’t want the government rolling in to hammer ban things they don’t understand, but I don’t want to have to carefully evaluate every single app just in case they’re shady. Having the platforms that the apps live on compete with each other on a number of metrics, including privacy, seems like a great balance to me. If I think Apple got it wrong, there’s always Android.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#115

Post by Angostura »

mcfedr wrote: post #100
CharlesW wrote: post #6

> Critically, using the persistent location API also allows us to use an acknowledged acceptable way to capture when our users have active screen time. They're admitting to using background location to infer screen time, which is clearly "misuse" according to section 2.5.4. Whether the decision is right or wrong, I find it hard to believe that the developer is actually confused by this.

Right or wrong - it's one of the only was to implement this at the moment and apple are trying to kill the competition. I develop an app that does similar features, we are currently still in the store but apple won't let us release any updates for 3-4 months now. They keep saying rubbish like this but at the end of the day they don't want competition for this own apps.

Do you explicitly get the user to consent to the use if background location data for this purpose?

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#116

Post by js4ever »

saagarjha wrote: post #85
js4ever wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This remember me when my free music app was kicked out of the store with 17 other free & legal music apps ... the exact same day when Apple music was published... This is why I hate so much Apple and all their products now.

What reason did Apple provide when they pulled your app?

If my memory is correct it was something like "low quality apps are not allowed on the appstore" ... Even if I didn't submitted an update since months and everything was running smoothly with 200k happy monthly users and very high review ratings...

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#117

Post by ryanwaggoner »

amelius wrote: post #112

Just remember that being an iOS/AppStore developer is a lot like being a driver for Uber. Your rights are close to zero.

That’s a lazy comparison. The only meaningful choice you have with Uber is when to drive.

A better comparison would be a general contractor in your city. You can build for yourself, for others on spec, custom per customer, tract homes, etc. The rules for where and how you can build are clearly laid out in advance in the building code. You’ll need inspections and sign-offs from the building dept that you’re following the building code. It’s sometimes annoying, and occasionally unfair. But if you want to build in their jurisdiction, you play by their rules. You’re welcome to go build in the middle of nowhere where building codes are lax or non-existent, but guess what, there are no customers there.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#118

Post by ryanwaggoner »

writepub wrote: post #13
whalesalad wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it be illegal? If you sold bread in a grocery store and the grocery store decided they preferred their own brand and didn't wanna sell yours anymore... would that be illegal?

When the grocery store accounts for 80% of profits, and about 70% of revenues in it's category [1] (mobile app store), it stops being legal, and falls into the category of anti-trust. [1]: https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/16/apples-app-store-revenue-n...

You’re just redefining monopoly to suit your purposes.

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#119

Post by amelius »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #117
amelius wrote: post #112

Just remember that being an iOS/AppStore developer is a lot like being a driver for Uber. Your rights are close to zero.

That’s a lazy comparison. The only meaningful choice you have with Uber is when to drive. A better comparison would be a general contractor in your city. You can build for yourself, for others on spec, custom per customer, tract homes, etc. The rules for where and how you can build are clearly laid out in advance in the building code. You’ll need inspections and sign-offs from the building dept that you’re following…

> That’s a lazy comparison.

In both cases, you are operating inside a platform economy. I.e., an economy that's embedded inside the real economy, and it's being regulated by a company (as opposed to the government).

These companies can do anything they want. The premise is "if you don't like what company X does, then find work elsewhere".

Re: Apple has removed us from the App Store

#120

Post by cromwellian »

saagarjha wrote: post #91
cromwellian wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't I have the choice? If you paid $1000 for a phone, and were using and enjoying this app, and suddenly, it can no longer be updated, because Apple says they want to 'protect' me, why can't I be given the control to decide whether or not I want this protection? After all, there are permissions dialogs. If an app needs location data, and asks me for it, why can't I decide to grant permission of the app to use i…

> Can't we protect users AND allow them to make informed decisions? Unfortunately, the answer to this question currently seems to be “no”. I have not found a system that both allows people to have “choice” and also prevents the average user from messing up their device.

The OpenWeb seems to work pretty well, at least from the standpoint of not getting viruses or malware from it. You could argue about tracking users, but it’s not like the native Facebook iOS doesn’t collect lots of data on you.
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