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Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#121

Post by blackstrips »

Svexav wrote: post #31
carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

I can see the iPad being used like a laptop but the iPhone ... the screen is a little small no - even the largest iPhones.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#122

Post by gumby »

OldHand2018 wrote: post #101
TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think CarPlay is a test of this use. It's really similar, in that you connect your device to your car, and apps render a different view on a different form factor. You have a certification process so you know you have at least a chance of a good user experience. It's a subset of device functionality, instead of supporting more functionality. If Apple invests in enhancing CarPlay, it might be a sign that they are sc…

I don't disagree with you, but I'd like to point out that iOS apps have long been able to render a view on a television (via an AppleTV) while also rendering a different view on the device screen. This has been possible for at least 4 or 5 years. There have been a few party game apps that allow a person to drive the game on their device while the other participants see what is on the TV. I don't think it ever really…

I think the difference in what the PP was saying is that with CarPlay you can interact with the program while with external video you can only watch.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#123

Post by mortenjorck »

misnome wrote: post #16
josephg wrote: post #6

I wonder how long it will be before Apple releases a laptop with an A-X chip. They’re already shipping their custom T2 chips in their laptops. The compiler toolchain can build great binaries for their A chips. They’ve swapped CPU architecture before and the modern Mach binary format can hold versions of the executable built for different architectures. They will probably need a Rosetta equivalent to emulate x86 for a…

Would dual chips make sense? A bit like their dual graphics, run most of the OS and anything compatible in one, and have another, low power x86 core take over transparently on demand (like, when running an x86 only program)

The company that didn’t even keep a USB-A port on its first laptop with USB-C ports will absolutely never keep an x86 CPU in its first ARM laptop.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#124

Post by dpkonofa »

snowwrestler wrote: post #79
dpkonofa wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't say "Period" like that. Apple's endgame (in the far future) is for you to wear an Apple device that allows you to sit at any Apple computer/display/device anywhere and access your information from iCloud. Right now, that doesn't make sense because we can't make phones or watches that are as powerful as a desktop PC. Tim's (and Steve before him) insistence is that people don't want to do advanced graphic wor…

Ambient computing doesn't mean that all the computing devices can do the same thing, i.e. that a phone or a watch or a tablet will do everything a laptop can do. It means that distinct devices are integrated into a single experience in a complementary way. > If you could wirelessly and seamlessly use the same device to do that work on a larger screen, powered by that phone, they would absolutely want to push that. Th…

Sure, but the vision is that all the information is localized to one device that you own that is on your person at all times. Look at how big Apple is about privacy and security. The goal is to have as few attack vectors as possible while offering a seamless experience to the user.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#125

Post by abalone »

carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

> chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed

I think this comment underestimates the importance of performance to the iPad and Apple's long term vision for it. While "real Photoshop" won't be ready until next year, it's clearly aiming to make the iPad a real solution for compute heavy graphics tasks. More will undoubtably follow. Why not edit video on a film set on the iPad? I can see it happening. Your comment sort of makes it sound like Apple just threw these into the iPad as a PR strategy and the "real plan" is to transition the Mac. But Apple's plan is to make both of these pro product lines as beefy and power efficient as possible and target real professional creative workflows.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#126

Post by tokyodude »

Is it really true this A12X is comparable to last year's Macbook Pro?

On that Macbook Pro I could run several VMWare sessions running Windows and Linux (have run 3 at the same time in the past). I can run Handbrake encoding videos across cores while still browsing the net in Chrome with 4 windows open each to different profiles each with 5 to 20 tabs. Have 4 terminal windows open, at list one of them serving a dev webpage. Run VSCode and Unity and Visual Studio and other stuff all at once. I've also done things like compile Chrome from source. Run XCode, run 2-3 iOS simulators.

I get that an A12X can't do those exact tasks as it's not the same instruction set but could it do the equivalent and get similar perf?

That's amazing if true. An iPad Pro weighs 1/4th of my MBP (2014). My MBP's fans spin like crazy when running a high intensity app and the case gets too hot to touch.

I'd love to believe a machine that has no fans and doesn't get hot and weighs 1/4 as much could actually have the same or more perf for real but when I actually use an iPad it rarely feels as fast and given it doesn't multitask well there's no way for me to check that perf is really comparable in real world use cases.

Anyone have any insight? Is it just because the chip was redesigned to be more efficient it can match or exceed the i7 in my MBP? Should Amazon be filling their AWS racks with A12X based machines that get the same per at much less heat and power? (Yea I know they can't by A12X chips buy still). Don't iPhones and say top Samsung phones generally show similar perf?

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#127

Post by kllrnohj »

macintux wrote: post #32
carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

> ...which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. I guess it depends on what you mean by "ready" how long the list is, but I'd suggest that Photoshop, console-quality games, AutoCAD, video editing tools like iMovie, all can take advantage of the speed.

> console-quality games

What console-quality games actually ship on the iPad?

The problem with games is that to actually match an Xbox One S's graphics you don't just need to match its 5 year old hardware in performance. You also need to have the capacity to actually fit the game & its textures. All 40-80GB of it.

Who is going to ship an actual console-quality game at console-quality sizes on a device whose base model can't even hold it?

And Apple is notoriously stingy with RAM. This new one bumps it up to 6GB, which is nice, but still less than the 8GB in an Xbox One S. How much does iOS reserve of that, and how much do the games actually get?

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#128

Post by lysp »

Svexav wrote: post #31
carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

Because they want you to buy a phone, a tablet, a laptop, a pc.

Sure - one device could do everything, but that doesn't drive sales or profit.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#129

Post by theluketaylor »

jimbokun wrote: post #112
theluketaylor wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The near total lack of the word "intel" at the keynote was certainly quite noticeable. The question is how much was that a negotiating ploy for better pricing/stock with intel and how much was positioning for arm macs. I think a bit of both. I went back to remind myself of the details of the switch from powerpc to intel. It was announced at wwdc 2005 (june) when they released a developer transition kit. The announcem…

"The macbook modifying words have lost all meaning when systems labeled pro have major expansion and repair limitations, the device named air isn't the smallest or lightest and the model without a modifier isn't the cheapest." This eloquently summarizes much of the disconnect customers have been feeling about the Mac product lineup. Jobs never would have allowed this to happen.

Playing the "Steve would never have done this" game is always dangerous, but in the past apple has been much more focused on having obvious product differentiators.

I think Tim tries to extract all the possible pennies from the supply chain possible. In a vacuum it's a responsible way to run a business, but it has left apple selling some products they should be ashamed to feature and customers unsure which product is built for their needs. When apple sells old iphones more cheaply the number in the name gives people an clear indication they are trading price for newness. The mac line is a confusing mess of exactly what you get when you put down hard earned money.

It's a weird combination of some devices with touch id, how many usb-c you get and whether the usb-c port is also tb3 or not. For those really out of the loop what the hell a touchbar is. The fact every laptop apple makes is thin, light and retina doesn't help.

For something as core to the experience as touch id it really should have triggered across the board refreshes, but apple seems interested only in substantial updates (though I would certainly consider the addition of touch id very substantial).

There is a lot to be said for shipping incremental updates on a regular basis so customers know the expensive product they spend their money on is being given attention. I don't need each revision to blow me away and every customer might not buy every refresh, but every time a product is refreshed it's a strong indicator if I buy this product it will continue to see investment. When it is time for me to put down my hard earned money I can be confident I'm getting good value and not missing some key improvement that is available but not on this particular line yet.

I'm experiencing this problem with ipad mini right now. Adore my ipad mini. Adored the 1st one. 2nd one was a huge upgrade so got that. 3rd and 4th didn't justify the cost, but now that my mini 2 is really showing age buying a 4 doesn't offer very good value when it's unchanged for 3 years. There are finally rumours a new one might be coming, but when? Do I move to a different size class (that I don't really like)? Continue to stick it out for a product I have no reason to believe apple intends to continue developing?

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#130

Post by kllrnohj »

iagooar wrote: post #56

This is nuts. The iPad Pro is so massively ahead of the game, it's even hard to believe. It is faster than the MBP 2017 and ALMOST as fast as the MBP 2018. We're talking a device that is 5.9mm thick and is battery-powered! Now here's my prediction: Apple does not really want to build an ARM-powered MBP. Instead, they will eventually allow iPads to double boot into iOS and/or MacOS. Call me crazy, but this would be hu…

> This is nuts. The iPad Pro is so massively ahead of the game, it's even hard to believe. It is faster than the MBP 2017 and ALMOST as fast as the MBP 2018. We're talking a device that is 5.9mm thick and is battery-powered!

The MBP's are also battery-powered & thin?

But you seem to be taking geekbench 4 here as gospel. I'd take that with a grain of salt. A really, really big grain of salt.

Even with that said I'm not even seeing any MBP 2017 results in the article...?

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