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Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#101

Post by OldHand2018 »

TYPE_FASTER wrote: post #52
Svexav wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be a laptop? What not an iPhone with a desktop mode you can pair with a monitor, keyboard, and trackpad? I’d love the ability to carry all my software and data around in a phone without lugging around a laptop or having to buy a desktop computer. And I’d love to never concern myself with transferring or syncing data again. And why not let us connect an iPhone to an eGPU for desktop gaming?

I think CarPlay is a test of this use. It's really similar, in that you connect your device to your car, and apps render a different view on a different form factor. You have a certification process so you know you have at least a chance of a good user experience. It's a subset of device functionality, instead of supporting more functionality. If Apple invests in enhancing CarPlay, it might be a sign that they are sc…

I don't disagree with you, but I'd like to point out that iOS apps have long been able to render a view on a television (via an AppleTV) while also rendering a different view on the device screen. This has been possible for at least 4 or 5 years.

There have been a few party game apps that allow a person to drive the game on their device while the other participants see what is on the TV. I don't think it ever really caught on; perhaps partly because AppleTV was a niche product way back when and partly because it didn't get much advertising.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#102

Post by nicoburns »

dharma1 wrote: post #78
Natela wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung didn't implement convergence, they implemented Android-with-a-keyboard-on-a-big-screen . True convergence would be something like Ubuntu Touch wanted to do

I worked on Ubuntu Touch (specifically convergence) for a few years. I think it's really interesting what Apple are trying to do (with Marzipan, pro apps for iPad, desktop level SoC's) but I think they still have a couple of years work ahead of them. It's not an easy task, especially with so much legacy. Getting Adobe and Autodesk to rewrite their flagship software for iOS was quite a good win, though I still wonder…

Is there any reason apple couldn't just implement it so that the iPhone runs iOS normally (always) and boots into full macOS when in desktop mode? They share a kernel I believe, and the latest iPhones have plenty of disk space...

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#103

Post by m_mueller »

theluketaylor wrote: post #28
carlesfe wrote: post #13

Apple are paving the way to A-chip laptops, not only by building excellent tech, but also PR-wise. Their last keynote was clearly a gymnastics exercise to ignore Intel CPUs and dismiss laptop performance while later praising their own chips which power a tablet that has no software ready to use that much speed. The fact that one of the most secretive companies executes a PR-stunt by providing an exclusive interview t…

The near total lack of the word "intel" at the keynote was certainly quite noticeable. The question is how much was that a negotiating ploy for better pricing/stock with intel and how much was positioning for arm macs. I think a bit of both. I went back to remind myself of the details of the switch from powerpc to intel. It was announced at wwdc 2005 (june) when they released a developer transition kit. The announcem…

I think one thing you’re missing is how good Apple’s GPU have become (and will be in 1-2 years).

I’m thinking you’re going to have a hybrid architecture for MBP. The T2 will expand to support all of Apple’s own software plus all upgraded one sold through a revamped Mac Appstore (plus hopefully your own compiled stuff when security settings are off). This can power down (all but ~2 cores) and instead power up an x86 coprocessor that supports everything else. If Intel doesn’t deliver that, AMD will. For Macbook I think you’re on the right track, just that the Air will be replaced with a 13 inch Macbook model with the same architecture.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#104

Post by nicoburns »

philwelch wrote: post #87
ianai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a truthful explanation of their motives. On the one hand, I definitely welcome challengers to the chip industry. On the other, I remember the Power days. Having non Mac users “talk down” to me about using a different processor was beyond annoying. It adds a quill to the Mac haters. Here’s hoping Apple produces cpus that outperform their competitors like their 2 G/s ssds do. Also makes me not really h…

Moving to Intel chips did two or three things for Apple: 1. It helped them jump from a failing CPU platform to a non-failing CPU platform. PPC was not keeping up with x86 anymore and Apple's two PPC vendors were going in opposite directions because there wasn't enough of a market for CPU's for Macs. (There were even rumors of future Power Macs migrating to a full POWER CPU rather than PPC.) 2. It meant you could run…

Note: there's also an ARM version of windows. Although it lacks full backwards compatibility with the x86 version.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#105

Post by jimbokun »

m_mueller wrote: post #100
camillomiller wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up what Tim Cook thinks about convergence. That is not what an iPhone is for. Period. This gimmick is just a pipedream of us nerds. It won't have the slightest chance in the market and it would be a subpar product. Both Huawei and Samsung have implemented such a solution on their flagship smartphones since at least two years. They work as advertised, but nobody could give half a shit about them.

I don’t think it’s just nerds. I think the idea has quite a bit of mass appeal [1], it’s just that existing versions are in some way unsatisfactory. the phone is already on its way to replace our wallet and I think it’s just a matter of time for it to replace our laptop bag. I’d very much welcome that if it could do all the things I’m doing on my Thinkpad, it’s just that human interface and OS are not there yet (mean…

"it’s just that existing versions are in some way unsatisfactory"

You say this as if it is an easy problem to solve.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#106

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

gsnedders wrote: post #23
justinator wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's track record of being able to switch architectures is absolutely incredible. If they want to switch, they can switch. To think that deep in the Apple labs that don't already have A-X laptops running - and have for, for a while is not thinking like Apple would.

> To think that deep in the Apple labs that don't already have A-X laptops running - and have for, for a while is not thinking like Apple would. Right. To me it's unthinkable given the amount of low-level code shared between iOS and macOS that macOS hasn't been running on ARM since day 1 of iOS.

Yeah; if nothing else, the first versions would have been "port Darwin to this SoC". Maybe they never ported the GUI components, but it would be unsurprising if they did.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#107

Post by xvector »

misnome wrote: post #16
josephg wrote: post #6

I wonder how long it will be before Apple releases a laptop with an A-X chip. They’re already shipping their custom T2 chips in their laptops. The compiler toolchain can build great binaries for their A chips. They’ve swapped CPU architecture before and the modern Mach binary format can hold versions of the executable built for different architectures. They will probably need a Rosetta equivalent to emulate x86 for a…

Would dual chips make sense? A bit like their dual graphics, run most of the OS and anything compatible in one, and have another, low power x86 core take over transparently on demand (like, when running an x86 only program)

Aside from performance, a huge reason to abandon Intel is security. I don't see Apple keeping an Intel chip if they switch to the A-X series as this would defeat much of the point.

Anyways, Apple has never been one for smooth transitions. Their history is dotted with big, bold changes. If they kept x86 they would slow the adoption of their new architecture. Apple will likely take a "take it or leave it" attitude like they did with the CD drive and headphone jack.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#108

Post by jimbokun »

dharma1 wrote: post #78
Natela wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung didn't implement convergence, they implemented Android-with-a-keyboard-on-a-big-screen . True convergence would be something like Ubuntu Touch wanted to do

I worked on Ubuntu Touch (specifically convergence) for a few years. I think it's really interesting what Apple are trying to do (with Marzipan, pro apps for iPad, desktop level SoC's) but I think they still have a couple of years work ahead of them. It's not an easy task, especially with so much legacy. Getting Adobe and Autodesk to rewrite their flagship software for iOS was quite a good win, though I still wonder…

"Getting Adobe and Autodesk to rewrite their flagship software for iOS was quite a good win"

Now if they could only get Apple to rewrite their flagship Pro software for iOS.

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#109

Post by nicoburns »

theluketaylor wrote: post #59
tambourine_man wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like and share your vision for the Mac line, but I doubt keeping two instruction sets simultaneously is the Apple way. I hope I’m wrong though.

They have been fully supporting two instruction sets (at times three with arm32 and aarch64) since iphone came out in 2007. I agree it would be odd for the mac line to bifurcate like that, but even in the ppc -> x86 days they supported ppc macs for quite a long time. Apple has been getting great returns from its chip investments because they have been able to reuse the blocks in so many devices. If they do go ARM for…

I reckon they'd be room on the market for a battery life focussed laptop. If they could hit 24 hours+ they'd be laughing. 2 archs would be a pain, but quite a lot of software already supports aarch64, so it probably wouldn't be too bad..

Re: Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip

#110

Post by xvector »

iagooar wrote: post #56

This is nuts. The iPad Pro is so massively ahead of the game, it's even hard to believe. It is faster than the MBP 2017 and ALMOST as fast as the MBP 2018. We're talking a device that is 5.9mm thick and is battery-powered! Now here's my prediction: Apple does not really want to build an ARM-powered MBP. Instead, they will eventually allow iPads to double boot into iOS and/or MacOS. Call me crazy, but this would be hu…

Tim Cook himself flat out said they have no intention of ever merging MacOS and iOS or converging the two in any way.
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