AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown • Hacker News Board

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#41

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #23

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming I'm parsing the sarcasm correctly, they can't sign on for any other ISP? So you get a choice of one depending on where you happen to live? I'm used to what's called local loop unbundling in the UK and Europe - which is the removal of the last mile monopoly, and all ISPs simply putting a DSLAM in exchanges. Initially this was localised, and there were smaller local players, but they're now effectively all nat…

In the US, most homes only have 1 option for wired broadband internet with decent latency. And even then, the upload sucks. Phone line DSL is not decent internet, so unless the phone provider offers fiber, which they very rarely do, you’re at the whim of the company that provides cable television.

[deleted]

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#42

Post by kup0 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #16

downrightmike wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering that there is more than likely no other option for service in the area because of the ISP totally not being a monopoly, totally not.

Assuming I'm parsing the sarcasm correctly, they can't sign on for any other ISP? So you get a choice of one depending on where you happen to live? I'm used to what's called local loop unbundling in the UK and Europe - which is the removal of the last mile monopoly, and all ISPs simply putting a DSLAM in exchanges. Initially this was localised, and there were smaller local players, but they're now effectively all nat…

Yeah the US does not have local loop unbundling. We need to have it, as it's maybe a good way to start fixing the problem.

It did exist in some form after the 1996 Telecommunications Act so it happened somewhat with DSL providers, but the laws were narrow, didn't address other issues that arise as a result of the law, and didn't include cable/fiber/etc

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#43

Post by ocdtrekkie » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

"Don't violate the law over our network" is not an unreasonable expectation, and "we will shut off service to people that violate the law using our network" is not an unreasonable penalty. It's hard to imagine any business of any kind taking the position "feel free to violate the law over our network" or deciding that they just won't do anything about it if people do. Imagine a restaurant that could see you operating an illegal handgun market out of the corner booth and just decided that was fine as long as you tipped your server alright.

This is the most softball approach possible, they're giving you nine warnings before they just stop doing business with you, which is quite a bit nicer than them handing out your info specifically to enable the entertainment industry to take you to court for hundreds of thousands of dollars or reporting you to the FBI.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#44

Post by tlrobinson » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:09 PM UTC

If you are fortunate enough to live somewhere with a choice of ISPs please vote with your dollars and choose an independent ISP.

Or, start your own: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16160394

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#45

Post by RankingMember » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #15

Spivak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISP sees high amounts of traffic over a public VPN and kicks you off their network for suspicious activity. You go to appeal it in one of their 'courts' and since there aren't really any rules the burden of proof is on you. You really were pirating so such positive proof doesn't really exist and you're off the internet for good.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for 'consuming' a large amount of bandwidth. For example, I help seed a number of Linux distro ISOs over bittorrent, and once got a letter from my absolute shit of an ISP (Frontier, if you are reading this, it's you).

Reminds me of when Comcast throttled bittorrent across the board.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#46

Post by zipwitch » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #16

downrightmike wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering that there is more than likely no other option for service in the area because of the ISP totally not being a monopoly, totally not.

Assuming I'm parsing the sarcasm correctly, they can't sign on for any other ISP? So you get a choice of one depending on where you happen to live? I'm used to what's called local loop unbundling in the UK and Europe - which is the removal of the last mile monopoly, and all ISPs simply putting a DSLAM in exchanges. Initially this was localised, and there were smaller local players, but they're now effectively all nat…

For much of the US the situation is something like this:

You have ISP #1, who have relatively modern infrastructure and bandwidth.

You may or may not have ISP #2, who have antiquated infrastructure they don't maintain that delivers bandwidth circa 2005.

You probably also have ISP #3, who use alternate delivery technologies (wimax, satellite, etc) to deliver low bandwidth at exorbitant prices.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#47

Post by woobar » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:14 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #34

jrockway wrote: post #24

I wonder when this will spread to other industries? Say someone doesn't pay their newspaper bill. Maybe contact their water company and ask them to shut off their water, to encourage them to pay. It's worth a try, right? I get why content rights owners go to the ISP to get at the ISP's customers who are doing things they don't like. I don't get why ISPs play along. It's extra work, and it makes the customer hate the…

In this particular case, the answer is rather obvious--the ISP is a content rights owner. Vertical integration FTW!

How is it different from when Time Warner media business and Time Warner Cable (ISP) were the same company?

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#48

Post by zzzcpan » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43

"Don't violate the law over our network" is not an unreasonable expectation, and "we will shut off service to people that violate the law using our network" is not an unreasonable penalty. It's hard to imagine any business of any kind taking the position "feel free to violate the law over our network" or deciding that they just won't do anything about it if people do. Imagine a restaurant that could see you operating…

> "Don't violate the law over our network" is not an unreasonable expectation, and "we will shut off service to people that violate the law using our network" is not an unreasonable penalty.

Monopolies playing judges and prosecutors is very unreasonable. They shouldn't be able to cut off customers by themselves at all, even non-paying.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#49

Post by cft » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:18 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #43

"Don't violate the law over our network" is not an unreasonable expectation, and "we will shut off service to people that violate the law using our network" is not an unreasonable penalty. It's hard to imagine any business of any kind taking the position "feel free to violate the law over our network" or deciding that they just won't do anything about it if people do. Imagine a restaurant that could see you operating…

The law in America is enforced by the courts, not by private corporations.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#50

Post by dionidium » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 6:19 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #29

obblekk wrote: post #5

I’m sure many of us believe in following and enforcing laws (even flawed laws like 150yr copyright), but are still made uneasy by this development. I think the source of that discomfort is - what happens if your service is cut in error. Do you trust ATT to have a fair, easy appeals process? Competition in the form of space internet can’t come soon enough, not to enable pirates, but to ensure normal people have reason…

> I’m sure many of us believe in following and enforcing laws (even flawed laws like 150yr copyright) FWIW, many of us don't believe in following or enforcing unjust laws.

References to 150-year copyrights is (deliberate or not) pure obfuscation. We're talking about downloading the latest box office hits†, not century-old texts bound by unjust extensions to copyright.

† Edit: in most but obviously not all cases