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AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

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Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#11

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tantalor wrote: post #8

The podcast Reply-All had a good episode about why this is problematic earlier this year. https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/118 Excerpt: ALEX: So finally, I find this website that is called the Center for Copyright information. PJ: And what’s that? ALEX: It’s a website that is run by both the entertainment industry and the ISPs, they’re working together. And the deal is, if you feel that you have wrongly received…

> It’s a website that is run by both the entertainment industry and the ISPs, they’re working together

The entertainment industry wants takedowns eagerly enforced. The ISPs don't want to do work. Ignoring complaints is the predictable outcome. (As is AT&T becoming stricter about copyright enforcement after buying a content company.)

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#12

Post by Spivak »

dawnerd wrote: post #7
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #2

Some of you might be wondering why "a little over a dozen" people being booted from their ISP is newsworthy. This is figuratively the beginning of a very, very slippery slope.

and I bet those "over a dozen" people are also their highest in terms of bandwidth use. Smart pirates use vpns anyways.

ISP sees high amounts of traffic over a public VPN and kicks you off their network for suspicious activity. You go to appeal it in one of their 'courts' and since there aren't really any rules the burden of proof is on you.

You really were pirating so such positive proof doesn't really exist and you're off the internet for good.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#13

Post by craftyguy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
tantalor wrote: post #8

The podcast Reply-All had a good episode about why this is problematic earlier this year. https://www.gimletmedia.com/reply-all/118 Excerpt: ALEX: So finally, I find this website that is called the Center for Copyright information. PJ: And what’s that? ALEX: It’s a website that is run by both the entertainment industry and the ISPs, they’re working together. And the deal is, if you feel that you have wrongly received…

> It’s a website that is run by both the entertainment industry and the ISPs, they’re working together The entertainment industry wants takedowns eagerly enforced. The ISPs don't want to do work. Ignoring complaints is the predictable outcome. (As is AT&T becoming stricter about copyright enforcement after buying a content company.)

> pay $35

And make a quick buck on the side too!

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#14

Post by eiaoa »

obblekk wrote: post #5

I’m sure many of us believe in following and enforcing laws (even flawed laws like 150yr copyright), but are still made uneasy by this development. I think the source of that discomfort is - what happens if your service is cut in error. Do you trust ATT to have a fair, easy appeals process? Competition in the form of space internet can’t come soon enough, not to enable pirates, but to ensure normal people have reason…

> what happens if your service is cut in error. Do you trust ATT to have a fair, easy appeals process?

This is where many of the arguments against government regulation break down. If you take government out of the picture, you're still left dealing with massive institutions and bureaucratic regulations. The main difference is that those institutions are even less accountable to the average person than the government, and they have obvious interests in tilting every table to advantage themselves.

Dealing with a corporate bureaucracy is dealing with a regulatory body that's been totally captured by that corporation.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#15

Post by craftyguy »

Spivak wrote: post #12
dawnerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and I bet those "over a dozen" people are also their highest in terms of bandwidth use. Smart pirates use vpns anyways.

ISP sees high amounts of traffic over a public VPN and kicks you off their network for suspicious activity. You go to appeal it in one of their 'courts' and since there aren't really any rules the burden of proof is on you. You really were pirating so such positive proof doesn't really exist and you're off the internet for good.

There are perfectly legitimate reasons for 'consuming' a large amount of bandwidth. For example, I help seed a number of Linux distro ISOs over bittorrent, and once got a letter from my absolute shit of an ISP (Frontier, if you are reading this, it's you).

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#16

Post by NeedMoreTea »

downrightmike wrote: post #3
bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #2

Some of you might be wondering why "a little over a dozen" people being booted from their ISP is newsworthy. This is figuratively the beginning of a very, very slippery slope.

Especially considering that there is more than likely no other option for service in the area because of the ISP totally not being a monopoly, totally not.

Assuming I'm parsing the sarcasm correctly, they can't sign on for any other ISP? So you get a choice of one depending on where you happen to live?

I'm used to what's called local loop unbundling in the UK and Europe - which is the removal of the last mile monopoly, and all ISPs simply putting a DSLAM in exchanges. Initially this was localised, and there were smaller local players, but they're now effectively all nationwide.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#17

Post by sbov »

eiaoa wrote: post #14
obblekk wrote: post #5

I’m sure many of us believe in following and enforcing laws (even flawed laws like 150yr copyright), but are still made uneasy by this development. I think the source of that discomfort is - what happens if your service is cut in error. Do you trust ATT to have a fair, easy appeals process? Competition in the form of space internet can’t come soon enough, not to enable pirates, but to ensure normal people have reason…

> what happens if your service is cut in error. Do you trust ATT to have a fair, easy appeals process? This is where many of the arguments against government regulation break down. If you take government out of the picture, you're still left dealing with massive institutions and bureaucratic regulations. The main difference is that those institutions are even less accountable to the average person than the government…

But if AT&T unfairly cuts you off from the internet, you could just go to a competitor!

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#18

Post by sbov »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #16
downrightmike wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially considering that there is more than likely no other option for service in the area because of the ISP totally not being a monopoly, totally not.

Assuming I'm parsing the sarcasm correctly, they can't sign on for any other ISP? So you get a choice of one depending on where you happen to live? I'm used to what's called local loop unbundling in the UK and Europe - which is the removal of the last mile monopoly, and all ISPs simply putting a DSLAM in exchanges. Initially this was localised, and there were smaller local players, but they're now effectively all nat…

Doesn't work that way in the US. I have a choice of two ISPs where I live. AT&T and Comcast.

Some have more. Some have less. I've never lived somewhere that had only one choice though, so I'm not sure how common it is.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#19

Post by wmf »

craftyguy wrote: post #13
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a website that is run by both the entertainment industry and the ISPs, they’re working together The entertainment industry wants takedowns eagerly enforced. The ISPs don't want to do work. Ignoring complaints is the predictable outcome. (As is AT&T becoming stricter about copyright enforcement after buying a content company.)

> pay $35 And make a quick buck on the side too!

That's a bargain compared to being on the wrong end of a federal copyright lawsuit.

Re: AT&T to cut off some customers' service in piracy crackdown

#20

Post by dsfyu404ed »

wmf wrote: post #19
craftyguy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pay $35 And make a quick buck on the side too!

That's a bargain compared to being on the wrong end of a federal copyright lawsuit.

It's cheaper than most court fees (whether those fees should exist is a different story).
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