“A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming • Hacker News Board

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#31

Post by RankingMember » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #12

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Moving voting day from a Tuesday to a Sunday would also make a big difference. There are many people who have have informed opinions but can't afford to take off work (write-up for being late to work/take off early, lost income, transport issues). Also that would avoid removing a school day since most public schools are used for polling. Another option would be to switch to make mail-in ballots only.

I'm in favor of ditching Columbus day and replacing it with November 6th as a national holiday for that reason.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#32

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #11

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

A big part of the problem I feel is choice fatigue. Its by design that when you go to vote in a US election you are often voting for sometimes 20 or more different positions, and because of the sheer quantity of people you are supposed to audit this way it becomes impossible to thoroughly investigate all your choices if each one takes an hour of research. You can't ask your average citizen to spend 20+ hours in advan…

A "local government dictator" could smuggle in bad actors just as easily as a party ticket. Either way, you're outsourcing the decision to someone other than yourself, and hoping that the checks on them (you could oust the local dictator, and the republicans want to keep you happy enough to not vote for the democrats) will be enough to keep them honest.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#33

Post by shittyadmin » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #30

shittyadmin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an optically isolated (phyiscally receive only) server which only receives codes sent from the application servers. > Also, you think this system is sufficiently secure to secure access to trillions of dollars? Because that is what elections are about. More secure than Diebold machines to be certain.

> On an optically isolated (phyiscally receive only) server which only receives codes sent from the application servers and produces results. And how does it count votes per candidate then? > Yes. More secure than Diebold machines to be certain. That seems very questionable.

> And how does it count votes per candidate then?

Codes can be simply be computed as HMAC(secret key, SIN + candidate) or something similar, the user and any attacker without the secret key just has a random string of bits.

You do realize votes are tallied by computer currently, right? Most of these just rely on phone-based systems that often expose interfaces to news orgs and such. The sort of interface I'm talking about would actually lead to less exposure in many ways from a security standpoint.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#34

Post by mtgx » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

I agree this is far from the primary thing Americans should be focusing on, even forgetting about all the horrific and completely impossible to fix security issues that this will bring.

What the US needs to be focusing on is changing the voting system. It's absolutely insane and undemocratic for this to keep happening almost every election:

https://preview.redd.it/lyvqks420vw11.jpg?width=949&auto=web...

If this isn't a broken system, I don't know what is. This is not the "voice of the people" being heard. Oh, and what do you think happens when people see how broken this system is? Do you think they'll still "go out and vote"? Many will be turned-off by it and stay home, whether we like it or not.

And if you're looking for an alternative solution, the multi-winner ranked-choice voting system (for Congress/state legislatures) looks pretty good to me, and it would eliminate gerrymandering, too (as a simple side effect of allowing candidates from multiple parties to win in the same district, thus removing district monopolization by a single party):

https://www.fairvote.org/fair_representation

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#35

Post by Shivetya » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #12

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Moving voting day from a Tuesday to a Sunday would also make a big difference. There are many people who have have informed opinions but can't afford to take off work (write-up for being late to work/take off early, lost income, transport issues). Also that would avoid removing a school day since most public schools are used for polling. Another option would be to switch to make mail-in ballots only.

how do you validate mail in ballots? I am more worried about votes where we have to verify an absent voter simply because the chance of fraud increases. Fraud not only in not knowing if it is the actual voter but also because we cannot insure their vote was not forced.

my state had early voting for weeks so there really isn't a "voting day" issue here. (Georgia). Now I have not looked but how many other states offer early voting?

We need multiple issues fixed in US voting. (just a random list)

1) spreading the number of days to vote across a week or more 2) providing an easy method to confirm a person is eligible to vote and vote on the candidates they want to vote on.

3) providing a means to vote from outside your district for your own district, this is mostly solved by expanding the voting period.

4) providing in clear language what non candidate reforms are being voted on

5) randomizing how candidates appear on a ballot

6) removing one party votes. people need to choose, we don't need drones

7) removing the primary system which exists to stymie third party options

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#36

Post by acdha » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #12

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Moving voting day from a Tuesday to a Sunday would also make a big difference. There are many people who have have informed opinions but can't afford to take off work (write-up for being late to work/take off early, lost income, transport issues). Also that would avoid removing a school day since most public schools are used for polling. Another option would be to switch to make mail-in ballots only.

My $.10 proposal: change Veterans Day to be the 2nd Tuesday in November. Almost no cost, there's a strong “they served so you would have this right” angle, and it'd pair naturally with other civic events.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#37

Post by weegee101 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

Haha, that "sample security test" is hilarious. Basically just a link to SSL Labs saying they meet industry standard. That's great, glad they can meet low hanging fruit. How about proving that they can do better?

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#38

Post by SonicSoul » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

what you're saying is good but:

the right path is through transparency in government and other efforts to make it easier for people to understand what they're voting on

bit of catch 22, because in order to do this we need to vote out people actively obstructing this change

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#39

Post by asdkhadsj » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #12

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Moving voting day from a Tuesday to a Sunday would also make a big difference. There are many people who have have informed opinions but can't afford to take off work (write-up for being late to work/take off early, lost income, transport issues). Also that would avoid removing a school day since most public schools are used for polling. Another option would be to switch to make mail-in ballots only.

I hate going anywhere, and I am so happy to have mail-in ballots. I can't recommend them enough, it's insanely low effort.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#40

Post by tomatotomato37 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

> The Boston-based company raised $2.2 million earlier this year, helped along by buzzwords such as “biometrics” and “blockchain,” which it claims allows it to secure the voting process. Its app reportedly requires voters to take and upload a picture of their government-issued I.D., along with a selfie-style video of their face, which facial-recognition technology then uses to ensure the person pictured in the I.D. a…

So who's betting both the "anonymized" votes and the biometric software are both going to end up having time-stamped logs, which we'll only discover after a major election takes place?