“A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming • Hacker News Board

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#11

Post by zanny » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

A big part of the problem I feel is choice fatigue. Its by design that when you go to vote in a US election you are often voting for sometimes 20 or more different positions, and because of the sheer quantity of people you are supposed to audit this way it becomes impossible to thoroughly investigate all your choices if each one takes an hour of research.

You can't ask your average citizen to spend 20+ hours in advance of an election thoroughly researching candidates, and you can't trust a third party to "condense" information on them without an agenda.

A republic is supposed to be a society where people elect representatives to make most of these decisions for them. I should not be directly electing judges, police chiefs, school officials, attorney generals, or cabinet positions of the state government. The only reason TPTB made these elections direct was to incentivize people to vote by party color rather than by person to smuggle in bad actors into government.

I'm a firm believer that instead of having at least 5+ different elections each cycle we should be electing a ranked choice set of 3+ representatives per district who then can, as their job, and by legislature appoint the rest of the offices of government.

That would mean I would ranked choice vote for ~3 representatives that then convene in my state legislature. That legislature sends some number of its own delegates to Washington to act as federal representatives. The 3 representatives in my district would, for my district, select its judges, police chiefs, etc.

That would hugely dissociate the machine that overwhelms people with choice and results in aligning with factions and talking points instead of actual people.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#12

Post by athenot » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Moving voting day from a Tuesday to a Sunday would also make a big difference. There are many people who have have informed opinions but can't afford to take off work (write-up for being late to work/take off early, lost income, transport issues). Also that would avoid removing a school day since most public schools are used for polling.

Another option would be to switch to make mail-in ballots only.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#13

Post by bilbo0s » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

> The Boston-based company raised $2.2 million earlier this year, helped along by buzzwords such as “biometrics” and “blockchain,” which it claims allows it to secure the voting process. Its app reportedly requires voters to take and upload a picture of their government-issued I.D., along with a selfie-style video of their face, which facial-recognition technology then uses to ensure the person pictured in the I.D. a…

>and “blockchain,” which it claims allows it to secure the voting process...

(I'm rubbing my temples right now)

I don't even have the words for how bad this would be for a democracy or republic.

I will, however, make a curt but general comment on blockchain:

Anytime you see that buzzword, be on your guard.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#14

Post by aalleavitch » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

Yeah, this is the opposite of the correct way to solve the problem. What about, instead, you had an app that you could just plug in what time you wanted to vote and it would find the nearest polling place and give you the google maps directions and maybe even allow you to order an Uber ahead of time? It could reminds you how and when to register, it could even help reduce wait times by directing you to polling places with little traffic or at time when most people are not out voting.

We could make voting easier in a million ways that are not literally allowing you to vote on your phone.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#15

Post by 99052882514569 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

>And I think that people realize this. So when they know they haven't invested enough in fully understanding the issues and the candidates, they spare us the chance of their error by not voting.

Sadly these people are often less ignorant that the ones who haven't invested enough in fully understanding the issues and the candidates, and yet still vote. But I agree with the larger point completely, and have been called an anti-democratic fascist to my face for making it before.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#16

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

shittyadmin wrote: post #7

Good idea honestly, the security issues are greatly overblown - especially if we can simply make this a mailer with "if you want to vote for this candidate, enter this code/scan this qr code", where nothing about that code identifies the candidate they voted for. And it'd definitely help to improve voter turnout, just look at studies on how poll lines impact future voting behavior...

So, how do you count the votes each candidate gets if nothing about that code identifies the candidate they voted for?

Also, you think this system is sufficiently secure to secure access to trillions of dollars? Because that is what elections are about.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#17

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

[deleted]

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#18

Post by aalleavitch » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #6

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

You've got it backwards: people don't vote for a number of reasons. Many don't because elitists in politics constantly tell them they're too stupid or ignorant to know what's good for them, lecture about civic duty, and ignore the very real problems they have in their lives. Ignoring the real problems that exist in registering or getting to the polls doesn't help.

There are also concerted voter suppression campaigns against certain groups who may be unlikely to vote for a particular candidate.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#19

Post by malvosenior » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

aalleavitch wrote: post #14

Yeah, this is the opposite of the correct way to solve the problem. What about, instead, you had an app that you could just plug in what time you wanted to vote and it would find the nearest polling place and give you the google maps directions and maybe even allow you to order an Uber ahead of time? It could reminds you how and when to register, it could even help reduce wait times by directing you to polling places…

> What about, instead, you had an app that you could just plug in what time you wanted to vote and it would find the nearest polling place and give you the google maps directions and maybe even allow you to order an Uber ahead of time?

Uber basically does this now. It had a big call to action yesterday to take me directly to my nearest polling place.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#20

Post by mattferderer » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

I understand where you're coming from. You can always skip voting on certain issues or candidates if you're unsure.

At the same time, we elect candidates based on how well we feel they are up for the job. Understanding the issues is very, very hard; even for the candidates & their teams! We're not expected to understand all the issues, especially at a federal level. That's why we have representatives & why they hire staff.