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Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

bloomberg.com

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Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#131

Post by OnlineCourage »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

That's super callous and cynical. "Some African governments are corrupt so don't do anything." Deaths from malaria in Africa fell from 800,000 per year in 2000 to 400,000 per year today because of the introduction of affordable mosquito nets. That fact alone refutes your entire arguement.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#132

Post by iguy »

majani wrote: post #110

As an African, I can't help but think that all this charity to Africa might be contributing to us lagging behind in the world. With charities helping out so much, will the local government ever get their act together and provide these functions of public sanitation like they are supposed to? Or will they keep stealing public health funds in the knowledge that charity will always swoop down to save the day? Charities…

There is something to this. Was it Ethiopia that (at some point) instituted a no-NGOs-on-mondays type policy, after realising that all their ministers seemed to do was have meetings with the many aid organisations? (No link, sorry.) From memory such organisations contributed something like half the government budget, but all with their own concerns & priorities & need for visible success back home.

More generally, I think it's a pattern that governments which have to collect taxes from the masses need their consent, and thus tend to behave better, than governments which do not. Whether the non-tax income is from oil money or foreign aid, it probably has some similar effects.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#133

Post by pbhjpbhj »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #115
sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

He could well as, but I expect nobody would be much surprised over the answer: as you say, the problem of corruption is well known and merely exposing it again won't do much. Tough if he secretly bought out a few accounting agencies and published all documents of the illicit money transfers going on that could probably have an effect as it makes the laundering harder.

> the problem of corruption is well known and merely exposing it again won't do much //

I disagree. Exposing it is what is needed as a first step. Continual, explicit, widespread exposure.

The problem there I suspect is those with power to do anything fear their own exposure; or they prefer to gain from being party of the international elite; or they choose to use it as leverage for other things.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#134

Post by asteli »

jjeaff wrote: post #108
odonnellryan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the poop goes when it gets pumped out? In the sailing community more and more people are using composting toilets: https://farmingmybackyard.com/diy-composting-toilet/ As long as it is disposed of safely (properly composted), the cost here is the composting material.

Most properly sized and installed septic tanks do not ever need to be pumped out. They compost on their own and the excess water seeps out underground.

this was contrary to my city-dweller's understanding, so i did some quick wiki-reading and it seems like the reality is somewhere between you and GP's statement? i.e. they do biodegrade waste via anaerobic bacteria, but non-degradable sludge has to get pumped out every few years.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#136

Post by gdfasfklshg4 »

odonnellryan wrote: post #100
torgian wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t really work for China though. Plenty of public toilets around, and people (mostly children) will still take a shit in the street. Hell, I was in Chongqing a couple months ago and saw a teenager literally unzip, in full view of everyone, and pea on (on, not into) a recycling bin. Next to a god damn public toilet. In the middle of a shopping center. Near a police officer. A lot of people just don’t care.

If you gotta go, I guess? I've seen people poop on the train platform in NJ. Really crazy, but Newark does not open the bathrooms until 7-8AM. So when you're waiting for the 3AM train to DC... what you gonna do?

Hold it.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#137

Post by dsfyu404ed »

asteli wrote: post #134
jjeaff wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most properly sized and installed septic tanks do not ever need to be pumped out. They compost on their own and the excess water seeps out underground.

this was contrary to my city-dweller's understanding, so i did some quick wiki-reading and it seems like the reality is somewhere between you and GP's statement? i.e. they do biodegrade waste via anaerobic bacteria, but non-degradable sludge has to get pumped out every few years.

>every few years

Every few decades for a properly sized and properly functioning system.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#138

Post by iguy »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #109

I admire Gates a lot, but for him and way too many technophiles the answer is somehow always tech. Africa does not have a toilet problem. Or a tech problem. Or even a resources problem. They have a lack of intelligent social organization problem; i.e. dysfunctional or non-existent institutions, laws and organizational structures, as well as myriad forms of corruption from top to bottom that make it impossible to crea…

It's indeed true that the problem is not caused by a lack of technology. Some places became much more sanitary, safe, well-fed on a much lower technological level.

But a more positive take would be that perhaps better tech offers a way to improve people's lives despite other disfunction.

London had pretty amazing communications 150 years ago, letters delivered 4-5 times a day to any of a million people. This machine took an enormous amount of human capital to run — thousands of literate & honest postmen, for a start. Today we can deliver a better outcome with much less input — just a few guys who know how to set up a cellphone base station. This doesn’t fix the dysfunction, but does offer many benefits.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#139

Post by dsfyu404ed »

wongarsu wrote: post #121
gtsteve wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a civil engineer but I do work with them occasionally. There are numerous challenges with this, probably the hardest is water pressure: if the water pressure cannot be guaranteed then poor plumbing can send waste water back into the water main, which is a really big problem. I also assume that to ensure water pressure involves electricity - a lot of poorer countries do not have a constant or reliable electric…

>I also assume that to ensure water pressure involves electricity - a lot of poorer countries do not have a constant or reliable electricity supply. Today water pressure in the western world is mostly generated by running finely controlled electric pumps constantly, but it wasn't too long ago that water towers were used everywhere to maintain water pressure. The advantage of a water tower is that you can run an inacc…

>Of course building a tower capable of holding many tons of water is a comparably complex civil engineering task and is costly in materials.

In most cases it's not. You park a ground level tank on one of the taller hills in town.

Re: Gates Foundation spent $200M funding toilet research

#140

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Bulkington wrote: post #17

Okay, I'll bite. I was at a urinal today that had a mesh screen of a style I'd never noticed, and I thought: Some guy with a degree in engineering/fluid dynamics has this on his resume. But when you consider there are what, 3.5 billion or so males on the planet, the benefits of urinal hygiene add up pretty quickly. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/08/urinal-splashback-...

A few years ago (maybe 10) we started getting "waterless" urinals in the UK. I assume that was a materials improvement (extreme hydrophobic coatings?). They have an outlet pipe, but no inlet.

That must save a lot of piping and water.

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